STTF SNG->cash thread

[cakewalk]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 21/12/3.5 over 140. Wtf does he donk two streets like this with? In retrospect, the only thing I can think of that he plays like this is Txcc, but in game this just had me really confused. Give me a turn action and an idea of what to do on the river.


Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $76.50
CO: $45.40
BTN: $81.05
SB: $49.30
BB: $48.70

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, CO calls $1.25, BTN folds, SB calls $1, BB folds

Flop: ($4.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $3</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $9</font>, CO folds, SB calls $6

Turn: ($22.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $14</font>, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd keep raising and calling. i see 9x here a lot

[K䲰䮥n]

[ QUOTE ]
All uknowns. Comments on all streets, please.

Seat 1: Firetribe ( $100.75 )
Seat 3: G ster ( $114.09 )
Seat 5: Saage ( $81.25 )
Seat 6: R3sistance ( $98.50 )
Seat 8: bsasplayer ( $68.40 )
Seat 10: Mongoose92 ( $46.70 )
Mongoose92 posts Small Blind $0.50
Firetribe posts Big Blind $1

Dealing cards
Your cards 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [Firetribe]
G ster raises $4
Saage calls $4
R3sistance folds
bsasplayer folds
Mongoose92 calls $3.50
Firetribe calls $3

Dealing Flop 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Mongoose92 checks
Firetribe checks
G ster checks
Saage checks

Dealing Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Mongoose92 checks
Firetribe bets $8
G ster folds
Saage calls $8
Mongoose92 folds

Dealing River 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Firetribe bets $18
Saage raises $69.25
Firetribe calls $51.25

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone else?

[Josem]

Karp,

1) I'm thinking about starting up a datamining sevice for PartyPoker for you muppets who don't have reads and PT stats on your opponents

2) PF - probably a little on the loose side, but your cards are pretty, you're the 4th person in, and you close the betting, so it is fine

3) Flop - checking is very standard. You don't want to 3-bet, and if you get raised by the pre-flop raiser (as is likely) you're going to be putting a lot of money in while behind.

Since you don't have the best hand here, and have no reasonable expectation of everyone folding, betting is a bad idea.

4) Turn - you now probably have the best made hand, and have a flush draw as well. I'd probably bet marginally more ($11 or $12 into a $16 pot) but your bet is better than nothing.

5) Betting is LDO, calling seems LDO. If you lose flush over flush, so be it. Some flushes beat you (A, K, Q); Some flushes lose to you (T,8,6,5). You also beat weirdly played overpairs, bluffs, TT, JJ, 77 and 89, which all might play that way.

[K䲰䮥n]

Nice reply Aujoz, ty.

But I'm no muppet. My PO crashes on a regular basis and this was the case here. So instead of whining of my software and pleading for the HM HUD to be released i just typed "unknows" because that's what they were. Why am I typing this?

On the turn. If my weak bet gets pot-size-raised whats Hero's play?

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
But I'm no muppet. My PO crashes on a regular basis and this was the case here. So instead of whining of my software and pleading for the HM HUD to be released i just typed "unknows" because that's what they were. Why am I typing this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you're not a muppet, I'm just teasing you.

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn. If my weak bet gets pot-size-raised whats Hero's play?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero's play is to get pokerstove, put villain on a range, and do pot odds calculations.

There's $16 in the pot at the start of the turn. You bet $8.

Villain, because he's raising and playing Party 100NL, will raise to $20 at the most (taking the pot to $44), and you'll have to put $12 into the pot, giving you odds of around 4:1, implied odds if you hit your outs.

Villain does not have 22 or 44, 'cause he would've bet those on the flop, 'cause he's positioned last and is behind the raiser. Villain might just have TT, and might just have JJ (although this is unlikely since you have a Jack, and there's one on the board)

Villain might also have AJ (which makes your flush good, since you have the jack of diamonds) or JT (which also makes your flush good). Villain may also have 89 (flush good) or KQ (flush *might* be no good).

I don't think villain raises with ATdd here, 'cause:
a) he didn't bet the flop, and he'd have to be pretty retarded to wait until a scare card for his hand comes before raising)
b) if he's aggressive enough to raise the turn with it, he's surely got to be aggressive enough to be the flop.

Thus, I see no flush draw - except KQdd, theoretically - raising the turn.

So, if villain raises the turn, I don't think he has a set, he might have JT, AJ, maybe 89 or KQ, or be on some weird bluff.


One of the interesting dynamics here is that villain simply cannot have a huge hand here - while you almost certainly do. You've called PF, out of position, and have checked the flop. When it gets checked around, on the turn, you've led out into a four way pot. There is a 2 and a 4 on the board, and if I was a thinking villain, 22 and 44 have got to be huge parts of your range, since you could have easily checked the flop with the intention of check-raising into the preflop raiser.


Thus, I reckon you can call the hypothetical turn raise ('cause it'll be too small, giving you great real and implied odds) or push over it ('cause villain doesn't have a big hand very often and you have good fold equity, and when you don't get the fold, you're drawing to a heap of outs - you either have 9 outs to the flush, or you're already leading, plus possible two pair and trips possibilities)

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All uknowns. Comments on all streets, please.

Seat 1: Firetribe ( $100.75 )
Seat 3: G ster ( $114.09 )
Seat 5: Saage ( $81.25 )
Seat 6: R3sistance ( $98.50 )
Seat 8: bsasplayer ( $68.40 )
Seat 10: Mongoose92 ( $46.70 )
Mongoose92 posts Small Blind $0.50
Firetribe posts Big Blind $1

Dealing cards
Your cards 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [Firetribe]
G ster raises $4
Saage calls $4
R3sistance folds
bsasplayer folds
Mongoose92 calls $3.50
Firetribe calls $3

Dealing Flop 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Mongoose92 checks
Firetribe checks
G ster checks
Saage checks

Dealing Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Mongoose92 checks
Firetribe bets $8
G ster folds
Saage calls $8
Mongoose92 folds

Dealing River 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Firetribe bets $18
Saage raises $69.25
Firetribe calls $51.25

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

arent there 2 diamonds in your hand, and 3 more on the board w/ 100bb stacks?

[jgunnip]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DrJeckyl,

You should be running PT and a heads up display and have stats on these guys. Stats are super important.



[/ QUOTE ]

I am still learning to use PT and PAHUD. All of my live stats are on the wrong people! I've been too lazy to study the tutorial when I only have an hour or so each night to play... but you're right, I need to take advantage of PT and figure out how to use it better.

[/ QUOTE ]

catching up on some posts.

I have to disagree with ChrisV here. at the lower limits (25nl, 50nl, and maybe even 100nl) displaying stats isn't necessary. Yes it can help but it can also make the game more confusing that it needs to be. If somebody is just playing 1-4 tables they can pick up a lot of information on the tables and players just by reviewing all hands that go to showdown and taking notes. IMO, this information is much more useful than stats. Also for me I notice if I've got my stats up I'm not as focused on the hands that I'm not involved in.

I think at stakes or sites where you don't come up against the same players a lot playing without stats is the best way to go, especially for players who are starting out at cash or getting back into it. The most important thing for this type of player is getting the fundamentals down. I used to be in the more info = better camp but sometimes too much input makes your decisions tougher or creates unwanted confusion.

[K䲰䮥n]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All uknowns. Comments on all streets, please.

Seat 1: Firetribe ( $100.75 )
Seat 3: G ster ( $114.09 )
Seat 5: Saage ( $81.25 )
Seat 6: R3sistance ( $98.50 )
Seat 8: bsasplayer ( $68.40 )
Seat 10: Mongoose92 ( $46.70 )
Mongoose92 posts Small Blind $0.50
Firetribe posts Big Blind $1

Dealing cards
Your cards 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [Firetribe]
G ster raises $4
Saage calls $4
R3sistance folds
bsasplayer folds
Mongoose92 calls $3.50
Firetribe calls $3

Dealing Flop 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Mongoose92 checks
Firetribe checks
G ster checks
Saage checks

Dealing Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Mongoose92 checks
Firetribe bets $8
G ster folds
Saage calls $8
Mongoose92 folds

Dealing River 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Firetribe bets $18
Saage raises $69.25
Firetribe calls $51.25

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

arent there 2 diamonds in your hand, and 3 more on the board w/ 100bb stacks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping for a response to PF and turn, too.

[costanza_g]

everything looks pretty standard to me. As long as villains river raise was allin.

[cha59]

[ QUOTE ]
I've only been at the table maybe 10 hands, BB was maybe 10/0 - i.e. relatively unknown.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($10.05)
BB ($28.55)
UTG ($11.55)
UTG+1 ($6.15)
MP1 ($8)
Hero ($22)
CO ($23.65)
Button ($24.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $1.50, SB calls $1.40, BB calls $1.25, UTG calls $1.25, UTG+1 calls $1.25, MP1 calls $1.25.

Flop: ($10.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $7</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls $7, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($24.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $14</font>, Hero calls $13.50 (All-In).



Final Pot: $51.50

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd shove the flop with the pot and stacks looking like that. I'm curious about what others think about that. As played I call the turn.