ask trying2learn about casino player ratings & the host position

[trying2learn]

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T2L, I saw this situation on the strip a little while back. A guy had been playing poker and drinking for a while and started getting pretty belligerent. The floor talked to him and told him he needed to calm down. He didn’t and so was soon asked to leave. He got really angry over this and said that his host was going to come talk to the floor man. All I know is that his host did come in to talk to the floor but the guy never came back in.

What would a hosts position be in a spot like this? Is he basically just talking to the manager to appease his guy? Or can he push enough to get something like this overturned?

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All depends on the player, the host, and the casino. There was a player at Bally's who could pretty much do whatever he wanted - swear people out, throw trash on the floor on purpose, etc. He got off on being a prick, so the casino had to keep finding people to appease him. He would lose somewhere between 2 & 3 hundred grand everytime he came in...like clockwork. For that amount at that time, the casino wanted to keep finding people to try and put up with him.

On the flip side, I had a player here over New Years who was up 20k in his first night. (That's a good amount for one player in our little joint.) He started getting out of hand, and the pit told him to take the night off...that he could come back the next morning. He called me and said he was going somewhere else then. I went to the pit...tried to keep our money in house...and they wouldn't budge.

It goes both ways.

[Spook]

Does the Silverton host freerolls?

I know that Caesars does a TON of Diamond and Silverstar freerolls in poker, bingo, slots, and blackjack tournaments. Special brunches and awards dinners. Free rooms during the event.

For someone who doesn't gamble much, it seems like a lot of value Although Caesars has to be making a killing on the players who are invited - it must be a win win situation for the players who are just having fun.

[jdaddy]

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It is my understanding that practially ALL casinos rate the Pass/Don't Pass bet only. So if you are $25 on the line, the you are being rated for $25 x Theo on pass line (1-2%). You may be able to get a buffet comp at a smaller off strip establishment with that action. You will not likely find $5 minimums on the strip, except maybe Casino Royal, so your friend will be limited to where he can play with the $6 6's and 8's.
Your theo on your play ($10-$20 per hour) sounds about right for your pass line x # rolls x 1.4% (remember odds dont count in theo as they are true odds). Look for a casino to give you 30-50% of theo back in comps.

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Is this true - most comp action is based off Pass/Don't Pass wager alone?

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I'm sure what he was referring to is the situation where you make a pass line bet then back it up with odds. Only the original pass line bet would count for your rating, not your odds bet. All of your other bets -- come bets, field bets, place bets, hard ways, one roll bets -- all of these would also be counted toward your rating.

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Actually I am saying that only the line bet is counted by 90% of casinos. A few will rate the 6 8 place bets as well, but I believe you will find all properties on the strip will rate line bet only. Most folks bet the line and the pit can track an average bet for the line. However, most people do not repeatedly play the Horn on every roll, etc therefore tracking would be problematic. This sucks because all the other bets have higher house holds and would contribute more heavily to your theo, dollar for dollar, than would the same money on the pass line. If Hilton is using MindGame tracking system on Craps they could and may track bets other than line bets. COme to think of it Wynn may as well depending upon how interactive their RAID chip system is with the tables.

[jdaddy]

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I have no vested interest in trying2learn nor Silverton, but I will give my opinions.

Silvertons location is not so great, especially those who do not have a car and must rely on cabs, etc to get anywhere.

Silverton has very reasonable prices on rooms and the rooms are clean, comfortable and house keeping does a nice job. The check in is a breeze since there are only a few hundred rooms here. Silverton is very popular with the RV crowd as they have a large RV lot.


Silverton has pool. It has water in it. Not a lot of people.

They kind of have a country/old west/hunting lodge theme.

Minimum bets on BJ, Craps, etc were $5. As T2L notes, 10x odds for craps which is pretty good. Silverton also has a great Video Poker selection with a few different games with full pay. They even have lowly $.05 9/6 Jacks.

Silverton has a huge Bass Pro Shops attached to it. It is my understanding that there is some limited comp conversion to allow comps to buy all your needed fishing gear, after all you are in middle of the desert. (I know, I know there are lakes around).

Food : Lots of it and decent quality. All American Buffet is small and pretty good compared to other off strip properties. T2L notes that they are under some super expansion (why?). They have a nice seafood bar, serving typical seafood dishes. The 24 hour coffeshop is your average coffeshop, with some decent late night deals. There is also a steakhouse which I understand is pretty good and reasonably priced.

Overall, Silverton is a decent off strip property. I did not visit the poker room when I was there.

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This is a very accurate summary of my property, with a couple changes since jdaddy was here.

The All American Buffet no longer exists. It closed in December, to make way for the new mexican food eatery which will open in August. The desingers are shooting for a mix between Gardunos (Palms) and Pink Taco (Hard Rock).

Seasons (our new buffet) opens next week actually. It's a 12 million dollar project that opens in the area which used to be our Theatre. It's quite exciting, and I believe it will be one of the nicest buffet's in town. (at that price it better be anyway!)

the pool is technically still there, but there is no water in it actually...which makes his joke a bit ironic. we break ground on the new pool project next month, which will open for summer 2007. the goal there is a mix between Mandalay Bay and Green Valley Ranch's pools. the builders of Mandalay Bay's have been hired on for the project.


to answer why all the expansion? the owner is just really motivated to have his small independant casino have a few things to rival the big boys. hence bringing myself and a couple other hosts in.

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That is funny . . . no water.

I wasn't questioning all expansion, just the huge buffet. That doesn't seem like a +EV move. They are trying to attract more people by upgrading to an extensive buffet in the buffet capital of the world? It's off strip and there are too many other biggies like Bellagio, Alladin, Rio, etc that have great buffets and are on the strip.
More power to the owner though. I am all about value gaming.

[trying2learn]

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Does the Silverton host freerolls?

I know that Caesars does a TON of Diamond and Silverstar freerolls in poker, bingo, slots, and blackjack tournaments. Special brunches and awards dinners. Free rooms during the event.

For someone who doesn't gamble much, it seems like a lot of value Although Caesars has to be making a killing on the players who are invited - it must be a win win situation for the players who are just having fun.

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Silverton doesn't have the player base to do anything like that yet. Goals for events of that nature are set for next summer when the property has a bit more to offer.

Those events are very popular on the strip...along with shopping sprees.

[trying2learn]

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That is funny . . . no water.

I wasn't questioning all expansion, just the huge buffet. That doesn't seem like a +EV move. They are trying to attract more people by upgrading to an extensive buffet in the buffet capital of the world? It's off strip and there are too many other biggies like Bellagio, Alladin, Rio, etc that have great buffets and are on the strip.
More power to the owner though. I am all about value gaming.

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it's going to be interesting for sure. one of the reasons i took the gig was for the opprotunity to be involved in something as ambitious as this. who knows how successful it will be, but there's a chance this property will surprise a lot of people 3-4 years from now.

[Terry]

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I believe you will find all properties on the strip will rate line bet only.

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This is wrong. I've been on the floor in several strip casinos. They rate the total action. Anything else would be foolish ... what joint would want to comp grinder line bet only types and leave their action gamblers out in the cold?

It might look chaotic and impossible to follow to an inexperienced player, but I assure you a floorman in the dice pit can see how much a player has in action in a matter of a few seconds. He will look a few times during the play and adjust his rating accordingly. The rating is actually pretty accurate. It most certainly includes prop bets and place bets, and may include a code that the guy is a grinder type or an action type.

Some places may include odds bets in the rating total, others do not. Including the odds in the rating doesn't increase comps; it is only done to prevent arguments with players about how much they're betting. If the rating system includes odds, the percentage given back in comps is lowered.

[eggzz]

Hi, staying at MGM with two other friends in July for a full week. Just booked the room using my players club card. Got a slight discount. Asked if they wanted my friends card number but he said no.

Question is, do we say anything about the third person in our party (friend's brother). He will be getting a Players Card as well. He will play more poker than us though.

John and I will play $25-75 a hand in BJ, and also play green chip Baccarat and craps along with poker. Should we tell Mike to focus on getting food comps and not tell MGM he is in our room, and John and I focus on room comps?

Last year, we got four nights comped down to around $100 and got about 4 free dinner buffets. This was based on just John and my play.

Would the MGM charge us more for 3 people in one room rather than two? What is my play here?

Thanks for your time.

[trying2learn]

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Hi, staying at MGM with two other friends in July for a full week. Just booked the room using my players club card. Got a slight discount. Asked if they wanted my friends card number but he said no.

Question is, do we say anything about the third person in our party (friend's brother). He will be getting a Players Card as well. He will play more poker than us though.

John and I will play $25-75 a hand in BJ, and also play green chip Baccarat and craps along with poker. Should we tell Mike to focus on getting food comps and not tell MGM he is in our room, and John and I focus on room comps?

Last year, we got four nights comped down to around $100 and got about 4 free dinner buffets. This was based on just John and my play.

Would the MGM charge us more for 3 people in one room rather than two? What is my play here?

Thanks for your time.

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Many hosts will find it bothersome (unfortunately for you) to keep adding players to rooms. However, it's the best way to go. They won't charge you more since three of you were in there...and another host is only going to ask the third guy which room he's staying in anyway. Just combine all the play together...

[Forbin]

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Some places may include odds bets in the rating total, others do not. Including the odds in the rating doesn't increase comps; it is only done to prevent arguments with players about how much they're betting. If the rating system includes odds, the percentage given back in comps is lowered.

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From my experience most of the strip casinos do not count the odds. However the Hard Rock does. I was quite surprised when I was told my average bet at the Hard Rock, until I figured out that they included odds. With a line bet and 2-3 come bets and full odds, it's a significant difference.

I'm not sure how well they adjust downward because of that. I'm in the computer at the Hard Rock as a full RFB, but I really don't see how I'm profitable enough for them to warrant that. Not that I complain about it.

I've also had them forgive 10% of the losses off of my line, when the total loss for the weekend was only ~$8k.