The Dumbing Down of America

[billygrippo]

America is not getting dumber. we are actually getting smarter.

[FlyWf]

mason- You only found that information because of Google. Imagine how much smarter we'd all be if it had taken you 3 hours at the library!

[blackize]

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The poverty line for a family of 5 is a few thousand less than what a teacher makes. Are you seriously contending that it is not close?

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I don't see why all this is so hard for you to comprehend. 30k is about 30% more than the poverty line for a family of 5. A 30% different is pretty large. 30k is the STARTING salary for your average teacher. People making that salary in that job are 22 years old and don't have families to support. Now consider the fact that teachers only work 75% of the year. For the amount of work they are doing, they are making as much as the starting salary in most other industries(40kish). Then consider the fantastic benefits package that they get, the lack of skill and intelligence required for their position, and the amount of time off and you'll see that teachers come out pretty well.

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Either way, this isn't about the poverty line, it is about pay in general. I would never consider teaching, and the chief reason is because of the low pay.

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And anyone with a brain wouldn't want you teaching their kids. You would be doing it because of the check not because it is something you enjoy. Not to mention that you have shown in this thread that you lack the ability to extrapolate information and have a tendency to distort facts. These are things that I don't think anyone wants to see in a teacher.



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Your anecdotal evidence aside, here are the numbers: countries with better education pay teachers more, and they are in school more often.


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And here is another fact. In other countries, parents take interest in the education of their children. When people do the same thing here, their kids are very successful. It is convenient however that you ignore this correlation to further your point.

[KotOD]

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all,

the premise of this thread (that america now is in some sense dumber than america in the past) has yet to be sufficiently demonstrated. could someone provide good examples for discussion?

so far howard has mentioned a high school exit exam that he might have read somewhere and samsonite has mentioned the purported decline in compositional ability.

i would like to see more concrete and quantifiable examples.

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I freely admit that my example is wholly anecdotal and probably unquantifiable. And I'm certainly not suggesting that the average person in the 1940s was a literary genius. I do, however, stand by my assertion that you'd be completely appalled by the compositional ability of the average college student. Actually, these are ostensibly above average college students--I shudder to think what essays written by kids going to BFE Community College read like.

If I were to guess, I'd say the vastly increased speed at which information now travels is the main culprit. I think there's been a paradigm shift from content being the cardinal virtue of a message to the speed at which the message gets there.

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Maybe writing skills aren't as important as they used to be?

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According to whom?

[Triumph36]

Boris -

wow, I wrote a run-on sentence on a message board. I also write better than 95% of people, and have near-impeccable spelling. I also wrote that post in about one minute.

For the most part, communication of the 1800s was far less reliable and took far less time, thus the greater care you see in writings of the time. The old Pascal line about, "If I'd had more time I'd've written you a shorter letter." - people took more care of these things and probably had an eye on posterity with them as well.

Florid writing is a luxury and a sign of luxury - clear writing is important. I think you're confusing the two.

[XxGodJrxX]

You yourself said that your parents made sure that you did your homework on time every night. Assuming that you were raised in this country, your American parents seemed to have taken an interest in your education. I don't see any reason to think that American parents don't take an interest in their kids' educations. Of course, you say so, so it must be true.

[Jack of Arcades]

I'm still wondering how it's the ACLU's fault.

[wslee00]

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I don't see where you're getting this idea from. Most smart people I know are following their interests. Several very smart people I know are grade school teachers or in school to become grade school teachers.

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Those very smart people that you refer to just have a love of teaching and would do it for free if they could. We're talking about those people on the fence that may be interested in teaching, but the low salary is a hurdle they are not willing to jump past.

[FlyWf]

If chillins could pray in school Jesus would make them know trig

[Barfunkel]

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It has been mentioned already, but technology is not dumbing down America; schools are. The two reasons that our schools cannot keep up with other countries is because of low teacher pay and not enough time invested. Teachers get paid obscenely low salaries, so it should not be surprising that the people you have teaching your kids are morons. Anybody with a brain would be able to recognize that teaching is going to put them below the poverty line, and choose a different line of work.

Also, the chief reason that other countries beat American schools is because of the amount of time spent in school. American kids typically study for six hours a day, Monday through Friday. In Asian countries, they are in school all day, and on Saturdays as well. In my opinion, life as a child should revolve around school. Going to school for six hours and doing homework for one is not really enough, especially when you consider that most kids don't go to school during the summer either.


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Finnish teachers have really low salaries. We also have schools only 5 days a week. Yet we do very well in international comparisons.

I don't know anything about anything but I'd say being able to make ok money with not that much work is one reason. Why would anyone study hard if they don't really have to?