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| View Poll Results: Should the mod playground be turned into a World Cup forum? | |||
| Yes - I am watching the World Cup and at least reading threads about it now |
   
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16 | 24.24% |
| Yes - I am not following the World Cup |
  
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2 | 3.03% |
| No - I am watching the World Cup and at least read threads about it now |
  
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42 | 63.64% |
| No - I am not following the World Cup |
  
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3 | 4.55% |
| I don't care either way and am following the Wolrd Cup etc. |
  
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2 | 3.03% |
| I don't care either way and I'm not following the World Cup |
  
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1 | 1.52% |
| Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#131
02-27-2007, 10:22 PM
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Re: Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
On another forum I post on, we are having a debate about absolute morality. I'm pretty much the only atheist there, so I'm a little outnumbered. But the question I seem to keep asking is, why do we care about an absolute morality? I mean, they are saying that morality, in order to be absolute, must be compared to some absolute standard, i.e. God. Ok...and then? Why is this a beneficial approach to morality? It seems to me they are terrified that someone might come along and say 'Rape isn't wrong.' By holding on to absolute morality with their fingernails. Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway. [/ QUOTE ] Do you think rape isn't wrong? And if you do think it's wrong. Why? 
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#132
02-27-2007, 10:27 PM
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Re: Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] On another forum I post on, we are having a debate about absolute morality. I'm pretty much the only atheist there, so I'm a little outnumbered. But the question I seem to keep asking is, why do we care about an absolute morality? I mean, they are saying that morality, in order to be absolute, must be compared to some absolute standard, i.e. God. Ok...and then? Why is this a beneficial approach to morality? It seems to me they are terrified that someone might come along and say 'Rape isn't wrong.' By holding on to absolute morality with their fingernails. Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway. [/ QUOTE ] Do you think rape isn't wrong? And if you do think it's wrong. Why? [/ QUOTE ] Because how else can we have a functioning society? Its only wrong in that allowing people to randomly infringe upon the rights of others, specifically by attacking them, is not conducive to a functioning society. If you want a functioning society, rape has gotta go.
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#133
02-27-2007, 10:32 PM
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Re: Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] On another forum I post on, we are having a debate about absolute morality. I'm pretty much the only atheist there, so I'm a little outnumbered. But the question I seem to keep asking is, why do we care about an absolute morality? I mean, they are saying that morality, in order to be absolute, must be compared to some absolute standard, i.e. God. Ok...and then? Why is this a beneficial approach to morality? It seems to me they are terrified that someone might come along and say 'Rape isn't wrong.' By holding on to absolute morality with their fingernails. Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway. [/ QUOTE ] Do you think rape isn't wrong? And if you do think it's wrong. Why? [/ QUOTE ] Because how else can we have a functioning society? Its only wrong in that allowing people to randomly infringe upon the rights of others, specifically by attacking them, is not conducive to a functioning society. If you want a functioning society, rape has gotta go. [/ QUOTE ] What does that mean 'functioning society'? And why should it matter?
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#134
02-27-2007, 10:49 PM
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Re: Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] On another forum I post on, we are having a debate about absolute morality. I'm pretty much the only atheist there, so I'm a little outnumbered. But the question I seem to keep asking is, why do we care about an absolute morality? I mean, they are saying that morality, in order to be absolute, must be compared to some absolute standard, i.e. God. Ok...and then? Why is this a beneficial approach to morality? It seems to me they are terrified that someone might come along and say 'Rape isn't wrong.' By holding on to absolute morality with their fingernails. Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway. [/ QUOTE ] Do you think rape isn't wrong? And if you do think it's wrong. Why? [/ QUOTE ] Because how else can we have a functioning society? Its only wrong in that allowing people to randomly infringe upon the rights of others, specifically by attacking them, is not conducive to a functioning society. If you want a functioning society, rape has gotta go. [/ QUOTE ] What does that mean 'functioning society'? And why should it matter? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, this is where I depart from vhawk. I dont give didly-squat whether or not rape is wrong, I'm just against it because of empathy with the victims and lack of empathy with the rapists. even if society functioned better with rapists I would be against it. chez
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#135
02-27-2007, 10:51 PM
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Re: Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you think rape isn't wrong? And if you do think it's wrong. Why? [/ QUOTE ] Because how else can we have a functioning society? Its only wrong in that allowing people to randomly infringe upon the rights of others, specifically by attacking them, is not conducive to a functioning society. If you want a functioning society, rape has gotta go. [/ QUOTE ] What does that mean 'functioning society'? And why should it matter? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, this is where I depart from vhawk. I dont give didly-squat whether or not rape is wrong, I'm just against it because of empathy with the victims and lack of empathy with the rapists. even if society functioned better with rapists I would be against it. chez [/ QUOTE ] Do you think this is a biological belief in morality?
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#136
02-27-2007, 10:55 PM
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Re: Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] On another forum I post on, we are having a debate about absolute morality. I'm pretty much the only atheist there, so I'm a little outnumbered. But the question I seem to keep asking is, why do we care about an absolute morality? I mean, they are saying that morality, in order to be absolute, must be compared to some absolute standard, i.e. God. Ok...and then? Why is this a beneficial approach to morality? It seems to me they are terrified that someone might come along and say 'Rape isn't wrong.' By holding on to absolute morality with their fingernails. Whats the big deal? We wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a universe WITH an absolute morality and one without anyway. [/ QUOTE ] Do you think rape isn't wrong? And if you do think it's wrong. Why? [/ QUOTE ] Because how else can we have a functioning society? Its only wrong in that allowing people to randomly infringe upon the rights of others, specifically by attacking them, is not conducive to a functioning society. If you want a functioning society, rape has gotta go. [/ QUOTE ] What does that mean 'functioning society'? And why should it matter? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, this is where I depart from vhawk. I dont give didly-squat whether or not rape is wrong, I'm just against it because of empathy with the victims and lack of empathy with the rapists. even if society functioned better with rapists I would be against it. chez [/ QUOTE ] Actually, this is right, and this really is more the reason that I think rape is wrong.
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#138
02-27-2007, 11:13 PM
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Re: Absolute Morality
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Nope, you've got it exactly right. EDIT: Except that of course, morality cannot be based on logic. Logic is a tool, and its application must be based on something. If morality is contingent on some logical conclusion from pre-existing premises, its not absolute. Why is homosexuality logically immoral? [/ QUOTE ] lol. maybe i'm just tired, but i've totally lost your point. I'm having trouble identifying what your belief in relativism actually practically changes. it seems to me as though you believe the same thing as an absolutist except instead of saying your judgements are "absolute" you tack a * on the end and say "not absolute but 99.99%", as though that's actually a substantial change.
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#139
02-27-2007, 11:13 PM
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Re: Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Do you think rape isn't wrong? And if you do think it's wrong. Why? [/ QUOTE ] Because how else can we have a functioning society? Its only wrong in that allowing people to randomly infringe upon the rights of others, specifically by attacking them, is not conducive to a functioning society. If you want a functioning society, rape has gotta go. [/ QUOTE ] What does that mean 'functioning society'? And why should it matter? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, this is where I depart from vhawk. I dont give didly-squat whether or not rape is wrong, I'm just against it because of empathy with the victims and lack of empathy with the rapists. even if society functioned better with rapists I would be against it. chez [/ QUOTE ] Do you think this is a biological belief in morality? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure what you're asking but cooperation is clearly a very important trait and genes that get their carriers to cooperate with carriers of similar genes are very fit. Making us moral is how they get us to do it and empathy seems the key building block. Simply, it gets us to feel a degree of (dis)satisfaction at the (dis)satisfaction of others and therefore maximising our own satisfaction means caring about the (dis)satisfaction of those we empathise with. For those so inclined, evolution can be replaced with designer. It makes no difference. chez
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#140
02-28-2007, 12:45 AM
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Re: Absolute Morality
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Nope, you've got it exactly right. EDIT: Except that of course, morality cannot be based on logic. Logic is a tool, and its application must be based on something. If morality is contingent on some logical conclusion from pre-existing premises, its not absolute. Why is homosexuality logically immoral? [/ QUOTE ] lol. maybe i'm just tired, but i've totally lost your point. I'm having trouble identifying what your belief in relativism actually practically changes. it seems to me as though you believe the same thing as an absolutist except instead of saying your judgements are "absolute" you tack a * on the end and say "not absolute but 99.99%", as though that's actually a substantial change. [/ QUOTE ] Haha, thats my argument exactly. My relativism isn't different from absolutism in any practical way...but thats a knock against absolutism, not relativsim. The advantage is I don't have to postulate some unknowable absolute morality, yet I get to reap the same benefits.
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