astroglide's three questions for david sklansky

[ElaineMonster]

My philosophy about social change is that it takes all types. I think there's a place for the revolutionary and there's a place for the compromiser. And I think people need to hear messages in multiple ways and many times for the message to sink in.

You do it your way. I'll do it mine.

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
My philosophy about social change is that it takes all types. I think there's a place for the revolutionary and there's a place for the compromiser. And I think people need to hear messages in multiple ways and many times for the message to sink in.

You do it your way. I'll do it mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how to put this gently. Like - have you considered that the notion of mythologizing yourself as a revolutionary for social change, as applied to OOT, might be a little off base? Is this Mississippi Burning? The Internet Tough Guy Problem cuts both ways, here. Just as many, many of these guys routinely say [censored] to people that they wouldn't dare cop to under normal face-to-face circumstances, I have to wonder if you could say something like that, with a straight face, to a gathering of thirty OOTers in a convention room somewhere.

Also -- consider that the tack you chose to take on this thread, the reason that brought us here in the first place, was by any objective standard way, way off base. You took a perfectly benign thread, that was an OOT all-time fave to boot, and tarred it with some absurd brush, for reasons that remain totally unclear; as I understand it, it's about little more than a personal dislike for Astroglide, which I don't share, and which hardly seems that compelling anyway.

I mean - if you choose to view your role here, such as it is, as symbolic of some greater struggle, then so be it, I guess. I'm as vulnerable to that kind of thinking as anybody, and it's hard to tell when it's reasonable, or when it's not, until after the dust has cleared. But - lady. Seriously. Consider carefully.

[Kedu]

[ QUOTE ]
My philosophy about social change is that it takes all types. I think there's a place for the revolutionary and there's a place for the compromiser. And I think people need to hear messages in multiple ways and many times for the message to sink in.

You do it your way. I'll do it mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that place is the other other topics forum on twoplustwo? Seems like you're investing a lot of your valuable time revolting against an internet message board.

[El Diablo]

EM, Ed:

"I think there's a place for the revolutionary" ... "You do it your way. I'll do it mine."

I think it is perfectly fine in an environment like this to make your thoughts known in a confrontational manner. However, I think it is somewhat unreasonable to then be so offended and indignant when people react a certain way, even if that reaction is an inappropriate one.

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it is perfectly fine in an environment like this to make your thoughts known in a confrontational manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how this fits in with Elaine's alleged goals, especially under the highly confrontational terms she's chosen. Treat Each Other Better, right? So, treat each other better. Like - am I just being completely pompous, or do I not have a point?

[LittleOldLady]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm just happy to have an aggressive debator with whom I agree to attract all the flack so I can make very similar arguments and slip by unnoticed. ElaineMonster was long overdue.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

See, there's a big problem with this. You're going to have a hard time selling anybody on any point, no matter how true or necessary, as long as the message is kinda shrill, accusatory, and confrontational. I think this place's woman issues are a little out of control, sometimes; I've posted on the subject more than once. I mean - people are often kidding, but are perhaps thirty-five, forty percent sincere when they kid. The statements maybe shouldn't be taken at face value, but the frustrations, misunderstandings, sometimes contempt, behind them are real, at least partially. I'm not writing that off. I think it's worth discussing, maybe. But think about what you're trying to achieve. Do you want to sway minds? Or do you want to be examples that people can point to and say: See, I was right, women are completely unreasonable? (I think Inchoate's a dude, though.)

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I can't restrain myself. Reading OOT has all the "can't look away" pull of a train wreck. (And besides which, it's useful to have instructions on such important topics as the best techniques for toilet paper usage.)

I have always assumed that most of what goes down here re women is mouth-running, smack-talking locker room bravado, and couldn't possibly be sincere--or could it....If it is sincere, it certainly goes a long way toward explaining why the hotties are not running to embrace you all with open legs. Frankly, a woman would have to be drunk out of her mind to lie down with guys who really hold the opinions about women commonly expressed on OOT. Which may be why encouraging the excess consumption of alcohol seems to be a favored seduction technique of OOT'ers. When I read about the woman issues of OOT'ers, I can't help thanking God for making fingers. Sometimes I think, when I read about you guys going out with your wingmen to do battle with women and cockblockers, I would be doing a service to set up business as the Dr. Ruth of OOT, a role for which I am more than qualified.

Love, you guys,
LOL

[Razor]

[ QUOTE ]
My philosophy about social change is that it takes all types. I think there's a place for the revolutionary and there's a place for the compromiser. And I think people need to hear messages in multiple ways and many times for the message to sink in.

You do it your way. I'll do it mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok....

SHUT UP!

[InchoateHand]

I can't speak for anyone else, but "Treat Each Other Better" is not how many people would phrase their goals. For instance, in addressing rampant misogyny, "Showing By Example," may, in some people's estimation, be far less important than stridently confronting the unreflective participation in a debilitating and detrimental discourse. Unpacking the assumptions behind a given statement or action is seldom a "friendly" encounter, as few people are open to such challenges.

[sublime]

well otis is cute [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[El Diablo]

anacardo: Yes, I think you have a point. My point was simply that while EM's style/attitude is a valid way to convey certain messages, it is also a contributing factor to parts of the OOT environment that both Ed and EM have stated they don't like. I find some of her/their statements and actions somewhat hard to reconcile.

LOL: From time to time I manage to get a woman who's not drunk out of her mind, but I'd still appreciate your assistance in helping me get chicks. Thanks for the offer!

ICH: I agree w/ much of your post, but as I said to anacardo, this type of communication style also furthers a certain type of discourse/environment, one which I gather neither Ed nor EM enjoy. Perhaps I have misinterpreted some of EM's statements regarding that, but Ed has been very clear that that is part of his problem w/ OOT.