ALCS - Indians vs Red Sox

[Dynasty]

David Ortiz is injured (ESPN.com story)

"After Saturday's game, my right knee was so swollen that I feared I wouldn't play again for the rest of the series," Ortiz said before Game 3 on Monday night at Jacobs Field in Cleveland.




"When one has been playing this game for a long time, you learn to deal with pain," Ortiz said. "This is no time for crying. But I really want this season to be over to undergo knee surgery."

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
We have Cleveland right where we want them.

Good game. See you tomorrow.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea. right where you want us.....down 2-1 when our 3 best pitchers have had their worst outings of the seasons respectively. riiiiiiiight were you want us. aren't you from pa?

[johnnybeef]

btw, just got back from the jake with daliman, rojosox and tony popejoy. were going to the football hof tomorrow and are looking for tix again. if anyone in town would like to join us tomorrow or can accomodate, feel more than welcome to do so. as far as the game; the croud really sucked compared to the yankee series, but still nevertheless an amazing time. go tribe!

[MuresanForMVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We have Cleveland right where we want them.

Good game. See you tomorrow.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea. right where you want us.....down 2-1 when our 3 best pitchers have had their worst outings of the seasons respectively. riiiiiiiight were you want us. aren't you from pa?

[/ QUOTE ]


Such a [censored] response when he was clearly joking.


Edit: Beef, I'm still waiting for an argument from you in favor of Carmona having the best stuff since Pedro lol

edit edit: The Red Sox beat CC, put up runs against Carmona and could have won the game. Tonight Westbrook caught lightning in a bottle, Kenny Lofton hit a 2-run HR, the Red Sox had bases loaded with 0 out and scored zero runs. How many double plays did they ground into tonight? What you said sounds like "man, our best pitchers have sucked against you guys and we're STILL up 2-1! You guys suck lolololol" The Indians are a good team, played a good game tonight, and are a good match for the Red Sox, but you sounded like a tool there.

[Jurollo]

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I know you were being (semi-)facetious with the Wakefield jab, but it really is unfair to blame him for the Boone shot. He won both his starts in that series in dominant fashion, and was also a bullpen savior in game 4 of the ALDS vs. Oakland (games 3-5 of that series is a really underrated stretch of games in recent Sox history). He had also come in to pitch a 1-2-3 10th inning that game. The Sox were doomed after the Grady/Pedro debacle, anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
He also was selfless in mopping up in the blowup in game 3 and winning the extra inning game against the yanks in 2004. I have all the confidence in the world that he is going to come out and shut down the Indians tomorrow night. Anyone have career stats in the Jake for Wake?

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]

Such a [censored] response when he was clearly joking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had a few cocktails. Much like iron with rain, my sarcasm detector tends to get rusty with booze.



[ QUOTE ]
Beef, I'm still waiting for an argument from you in favor of Carmona having the best stuff since Pedro lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Name me one pitcher since Pedro who has a pitch that moves that much that consistantly. I will help you out since I have come up with one and only one....Kevin Brown. Trust me, I know my baseball. I have been watching this guy all season long and he is nothing short of absolutely filthy, much like Pedro was back in his day.



[ QUOTE ]
The Red Sox beat CC

[/ QUOTE ]

They definitly did their part as they are a very patient team at the plate, but CC had 19 walks in 240 + innings this season. Conversely, he had 5 against the sox on Friday night. Call it overusage, call it overhypage, call if whatever the [censored] you want, the fact of the matter is that there is some definite variance going on with those stats.

[ QUOTE ]
The Red Sox ..... put up runs against Carmona and could have won the game

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again, The Sox put up a hell of a fight against Carmona. They took the pitches that no other team could. Although, for the record, Fausto was a bit wild as well. Either way, it doesn't really matter as when Fausto left the hill, he had a 5-3 lead, which given the Tribe's bullpen, should be enough, which leads me to Rafael Perez.

Peter Gammons (A Boston native, as well as a hof journalist) has described Rafael Perez as "perhaps the best left handed reliever in the game" several times that I have heard. Now, the at bat where Manny went deep was a good pitch, and Manny hit it. Manny is with the exception of AROD, the best pure hitter of this generation imo (I should know, I have watched him since he was just a baby bull playing at Akron Canton.) Regardless, Perez has pitched 60 innings this year, and has given up 3 runs only one other time this season. I don't care who you are, if you have a 1.78 era with 60 appearances, you are doing something right.

[ QUOTE ]
Tonight Westbrook caught lightning in a bottle

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just another example of a total lack of doing homework on your part.

Let's take a look at Jake Westbrook's career numbers (btw, the yankees are drooling to get him back, but he chose to resign for a very meager $11 mil per year.)

In 2005 Westbrook went 15-15 with 210 innings pitched with a decent 4.49 era and a whip of 1.30

In 2006 Westbrook went 15-10 with a 4.17 era over 211.1 innings and a whip of 1.43.

In 2007, Westbrook was hurt for the majority of the season. However, in August, he went 4-1 with a 1.3 era over 5 starts. Like every other sinkerballer, the key to Jake's success is getting the ball down. When he is at his best, he will be getting most of his outs via the groundball (14/20 tonight, with at least 3 strike outs that I can remember.) When he is off, people will hit his ball a long way. Let's just leave it at this; Jake was on tonight getting only one ball hit hard in the air (the fould ball that Lowell hit.)



[ QUOTE ]
What you said sounds like "man, our best pitchers have sucked against you guys and we're STILL up 2-1! You guys suck lolololol" The Indians are a good team, played a good game tonight, and are a good match for the Red Sox, but you sounded like a tool there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I may be a tool, but I am a tool from Cleveland who is sick of my teams falling just short. Furthermore, ever since the Red Sox got good from 99-current I am sick of hearing about how good the Yankees/RedSox are even tough during this span, they have only won 2 series between the two of them. I am a disgruntled fan of a small market team that is very very good and not getting any respect whatsoever. If that makes me a tool, so be it, I will be a very happy tool once this and the next series are over, and a team from Cleveland, for once in my lifetime, is the champ.

[NT!]

man the ump sucked tonight.

and i'm not saying that as a 'we got screwed comment,' we mostly sucked.

the ump was basically so bad i don't think he benefited anybody, everyone was just like 'wtf yo?'

[ADLinden]

[ QUOTE ]
man the ump sucked tonight.

and i'm not saying that as a 'we got screwed comment,' we mostly sucked.

the ump was basically so bad i don't think he benefited anybody, everyone was just like 'wtf yo?'

[/ QUOTE ]

yea he was terrible

[MuresanForMVP]

[ QUOTE ]





[ QUOTE ]
Beef, I'm still waiting for an argument from you in favor of Carmona having the best stuff since Pedro lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Name me one pitcher since Pedro who has a pitch that moves that much that consistantly. I will help you out since I have come up with one and only one....Kevin Brown. Trust me, I know my baseball. I have been watching this guy all season long and he is nothing short of absolutely filthy, much like Pedro was back in his day.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you saying he has the best stuff or the best 1 pitch that moves the most? What pitch of Pedro's? He had 4 above average to WELL above average pitches. I dont wanna rehash this again, considering in previous posts I mentioned a number of guys that have a better arsenal than Carmona. Even with that being said, Mo Rivera's cutter has definitely withstood the test of time, and in his prime I would take that over Carmona's sinker anyday.

Maybe i'm starting to understand it a bit differently. Are you saying that considering all the different pitchers since Pedro, and all their top pitches, Carmona's sinking fastball is the best? Is that what you're saying? If you are I still say there's no chance. Or are you comparing it to other fastballs? Other sinkers? What ARE you trying to say?

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]





[ QUOTE ]
Beef, I'm still waiting for an argument from you in favor of Carmona having the best stuff since Pedro lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Name me one pitcher since Pedro who has a pitch that moves that much that consistantly. I will help you out since I have come up with one and only one....Kevin Brown. Trust me, I know my baseball. I have been watching this guy all season long and he is nothing short of absolutely filthy, much like Pedro was back in his day.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you saying he has the best stuff or the best 1 pitch that moves the most? What pitch of Pedro's? He had 4 above average to WELL above average pitches. I dont wanna rehash this again, considering in previous posts I mentioned a number of guys that have a better arsenal than Carmona. Even with that being said, Mo Rivera's cutter has definitely withstood the test of time, and in his prime I would take that over Carmona's sinker anyday.

Maybe i'm starting to understand it a bit differently. Are you saying that considering all the different pitchers since Pedro, and all their top pitches, Carmona's sinking fastball is the best? Is that what you're saying? If you are I still say there's no chance. Or are you comparing it to other fastballs? Other sinkers? What ARE you trying to say?

[/ QUOTE ]

He is as unhittable when he has control of his stuff as anyone since Pedro in his hey day (relief pitching is a whole different animal from throwing 6-7 innings every time you tow the rubber....mariano, troy percival, krod are all pretty nasty, but until they do it for the long haul, i don't count them in that list.)

edit: for a visual demonstration, see baseball tonight's segment, "that's nasty"