The Well: TheMetetron

[goofyballer]

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For instance, if someone wanted me to make a video of me playing for an hour, it wouldn't cost $300 despite the fact that might only be how long ti takes me. Trust me that the people working at video instruction sites don't get paid only their hourly for one hour of video.

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This is something I do for my students for pretty cheap (less than half my hourly) because I enjoy coaching. And I wouldn't compare myself to you as a coach because obv I play smaller stakes, but there are MSNL players at 10/20 and 25/50 that charge less than you do (and not only that, but they have to play on American sites and don't have the luxury of PartyPoker).

*Edit to your edit: I'll PM and ask if I can post his rates but I'm not just making this up.

[TheMetetron]

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Sorry if these are too similar to anyone else's Q's, I briefly skimmed the thread.

1: How do you go about reviewing hands? I remember playing with you at 1/2 6m late 2006 early 2007 and I remember you being pretty nitty/tight. I assume you've loosened up since then.
Do you write down interesting hands as you play and look them over later? Do you do much pokerstove analysis? Talking to friends about hands over AIM?

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I know everyone expects every good player to tell them the magical "how to go over hands" formula that will make them great but prepare to be hugely disappointed. I really just don't go over hands much anymore at all. If I find a spot particularly troubling (as in two decisions were close), I might remember it and find it later in PT and do some analysis on my own. Or sometimes I'll send it to friends on AIM and just get a quick checkup opinion. Posting hands on 2+2 is also very useful.

The problem is this: most hands that our brain tells us are interesting are usually some of the least important ones for us to be reviewing. The very mundane things like c-bets or c/raises or 3-bets preflop are vastly more important as we do these actions hundreds of times per session and making mistakes on them is huge. The one big pot where your decisions are maybe going to make a few big blinds of difference are nothing compared to the very normal stuff you do all the time.

Also, people need to stop thinking of hands as there being a correct way to play them. There is only a correct way to play a hand given what you know / can deduce about your opponent.


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2: (No offense intended here) Do you feel your reputation on 2p2 has helped or hindered you through your poker career? Ive seen you post a few times in MSNL and the general reception seems overly negative (I think the same could be said for myself).
Do you think people are less inclined to help you (not sure if you post hands) because they dislike you? If your SN is public, do you think people play differently against you because of your "2p2 image"?

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I don't think it has made much of an impact at all. I don't post hands or really take anything from the community for at least the last 6 months. I find it awesome that people can hate me with a passion for being good at poker and not sugar-coating things yet been completely fine with the lurkers who leach off the community. Maybe people forget, but I used to be (imo) one of the very best posters in MSHUSH and regularly posted advice and helped people there. I just don't feel like doing it anymore and if I do help people I feel that I should be compensated. Still, I will occasionally go on short bursts of answering questions in MSNL and SSNL.

As far as my s/n none of them are public though a feel people do know who I am. I don't feel like they play too differently against me except for realizing that I can make a lot of plays which is ok as long as I realize it and adjust to it.

[goofyballer]

Yeah, DJ Sensei said I could post, he charges $200/hr and plays as high as 25/50 though he added his rates might be going up soon.

I don't know his motivation but I suspect it's because he's a really cool dude and enjoys helping people.

[TheMetetron]

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For instance, if someone wanted me to make a video of me playing for an hour, it wouldn't cost $300 despite the fact that might only be how long ti takes me. Trust me that the people working at video instruction sites don't get paid only their hourly for one hour of video.

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This is something I do for my students for pretty cheap (less than half my hourly) because I enjoy coaching.

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And I'm not knocking that. It is your choice. It's nice that you and some other people enjoy coaching and are willing to do things for less than market price, but for me while coaching is fun, I don't hate poker and while I enjoy coaching, it isn't something I am willing to do. I've got retirement goals and my time is valuable. If I'm going to coach someone, I need to be fairly compensated. If people don't want to pay that, that is fine for them... welcome to the free market.

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And I wouldn't compare myself to you as a coach because obv I play smaller stakes, but there are MSNL players at 10/20 and 25/50 that charge less than you do (and not only that, but they have to play on American sites and don't have the luxury of PartyPoker).

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And if players decide they are a better deal they will go to them. Again, you are arguing me about market economics and it is sort of a waste of time. I'm charging the rate I'm willing to work for. There are people willing to pay this rate as evidenced by the fact that I've had people pay for it. We exchange his cash for my services and we are happy. What more you want to make out of this I can't quite understand.

And if there are people who I play against at $10/20 and $25/50 willing to coach me, I am more than willing to pay them less than half my hourly for it.

Also, I don't only play at Party Poker (but "American" sites too!) and do so for a reason: Party Poker isn't some sort of golden promise land where money grows off trees. The regulars there, are surprise, surprise, better than the regulars on any other site. I know, who would've guessed.

Edit: One severely underpriced example doesn't your point make. The vast majority of coaches better than me charge much more than I do after I quick scan of current rates. As you said yourself, his prices will be rising soon because he is so underpriced (assuming he plays and wins at what you say he does; I have no knowledge of his skill/stakes so I wanted to qualify it, though I obviously believe you).

Now, enough with the hijacked portion of this thread. I'm really surprised at the lack of poker questions as well.

[goofyballer]

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We exchange his cash for my services and we are happy. What more you want to make out of this I can't quite understand.

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As someone who likes helping people it just bothers me when people talk about charging ridic rates for coaching when there are more affordable options available, especially in SSNL where any solid 2/4 winner would be a much better deal for a struggling .5/1 or 1/2 player than a 10/20 player. I don't really think any players in this forum except for the very best should be paying more than $150/hr for coaching given the stakes that we play.

Obviously you have every right in the world to charge whatever you want and engage in transactions with people who are willing to pay that much, I'd just hate to see those people do so based on a lack of education about their options.

[Shizzle12345]

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what is your W$WSF ?

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[TheMetetron]

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We exchange his cash for my services and we are happy. What more you want to make out of this I can't quite understand.

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As someone who likes helping people it just bothers me when people talk about charging ridic rates for coaching when there are more affordable options available, especially in SSNL where any solid 2/4 winner would be a much better deal for a struggling .5/1 or 1/2 player than a 10/20 player. I don't really think any players in this forum except for the very best should be paying more than $150/hr for coaching given the stakes that we play.

Obviously you have every right in the world to charge whatever you want and engage in transactions with people who are willing to pay that much, I'd just hate to see those people do so based on a lack of education about their options.

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So your solution is to spam a friend of yours coaching services and the fact that you coach into a thread for asking somebody questions?

I agree with you that $.50/$1.00 players should never waste their time getting coached by me. I've turned at least 5 players away from coaching because there are better options. Do you want a list to prove that I'm actually not just trying to steal money?

The vast majority of my students are struggling $2/4 and $3/6 players who can't quite get the higher winrates. I also coach some $1/2 players looking to move to $2/4. Lower than that, and I think they should just get someone else.

Does announcing that publicly ease your qualms as "guy in charage of making sure coaching information is available for all"?

Edit: I really am done with this line of discussion. Let's take it someone else if you having a burning desire to troll further.

[TheMetetron]

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what is your W$WSF ?

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I'll give you a range since I'm not big on releasing my stats. 45-50.

Let's get this thread back on track if there are any actual questions people have.

[Nielsio]

What don't you like about Amsterdam, and what would you consider nice cities and why?

[dirtylobster]

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The problem is this: most hands that our brain tells us are interesting are usually some of the least important ones for us to be reviewing. The very mundane things like c-bets or c/raises or 3-bets preflop are vastly more important as we do these actions hundreds of times per session and making mistakes on them is huge. The one big pot where your decisions are maybe going to make a few big blinds of difference are nothing compared to the very normal stuff you do all the time.

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Thanks. This is something I've been thinking about and I was going to ask you about it but didn't figure out how to formulate a proper question. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]