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#121
10-22-2007, 02:18 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Wow you say you oppose concentration camps and yet you're IN a concentration camp. OMG I can't believe how hypocritical you are. JUST LEAVE THE CONCENTRATION CAMP if you don't like it. God. [/ QUOTE ] More horribly insulting and mangled analogies... fantastic. [/ QUOTE ] Can you expand on this point? [/ QUOTE ] Your analogy is mangled (concentration camps are impossible to leave, this country is not) and horribly insulting (to people in concentration camps, who you make comparable to living under our government). [/ QUOTE ] By this standard, every analogy is "mangled" unless the analogy is an exact 1:1 the described situation, in which case it isn't an anology, it's just a description. 
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#122
10-22-2007, 02:21 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Wow woke up to the largest hijack ever [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] To try and get this back i will try and rephrase the question Do we have a ruling "class" in the United States? [/ QUOTE ] Assume the answer is yes. Why do you think that which got you into this situation (i.e. representative democracy) is going to get you out of it? [/ QUOTE ] You believe representative democracy gave us ruling classes? [/ QUOTE ] It's the other way around. The ruling classes gave us democracy so that they could remain the ruling classes and not face a revolt. When religion is debunked statism becomes the opiate of the people Marx missed out that little nugget.
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#123
10-22-2007, 02:22 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
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Why is a difference of degree an insult? [/ QUOTE ] Because it's not a difference of degree. For [censored] sake. [ QUOTE ] What authority do you have to speak for people in concentration camps about what they are or are not insulted by? [/ QUOTE ] A large part of my family died in them, I have spoken to people who survived them, I have spoken to people who have lost relatives in them. I honestly would not have thought this needed explaining, and find it somewhat disgusting that you feel the need to question my authority to decide that people who lost their lives in as dehumanizing a fashion as possible might be insulted by being compared to some douche bag not leaving a country he doesn't like. [ QUOTE ] It was possible to leave concentration camps in a similar (though less extreme) way that it is possible to leave the "country" that your property resides in. IE it requires an unreasonable sacrifice on the part of the person wishing to leave. One losing your livelihood, friends family, contacts, property and still being liable for tax "obligations" the other that you accept probably a 10% or less chance of survival. They are both unreasonable impositions. [/ QUOTE ] Wow. I guess when you believe that paying taxes is morally equivalent to being raped in the [censored] by the government, it's pretty easy to say something like this and not think twice about it.
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#124
10-22-2007, 02:23 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
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By this standard, every analogy is "mangled" unless the analogy is an exact 1:1 the described situation, in which case it isn't an anology, it's just a description. [/ QUOTE ] No. This particular analogy is mangled because it is an entirely different situation, and the fact that is insulting is just icing on the cake.
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#125
10-22-2007, 02:24 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
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They are both unreasonable impositions. [/ QUOTE ] No. You don't HAVE to work for the government in this country if you don't want to/ like it. You don't have to leave the country either, I don't know where that came from. If you bitch about/hate the government, I don't think it is unreasonable that intelligent minds may wonder why you are WORKING for it in the first place? This is totally different from a concentration camp. Your analogy is so way-off and a way to defend something that I might expect from Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity to arouse emotion from there listeners instead of thinking about something logically.
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#126
10-22-2007, 02:24 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
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[ QUOTE ] I bet all the people reading this forum that were in concentration camps are sooooooo mad right now. [/ QUOTE ] I can't tell if you're just a rude [censored] or if there's a point you are trying to make here, but I'm going to just assume the former. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see why both can't be true. The point was, as stated by someone else, who are you to say a whole group of people is offended by an ANALOGY. He wasn't saying escaping a concentration camp = leaving the United States. He was saying that people don't choose everything, and some decisions like that, when made, are going to be -ev either way. People being overly sensitive about innocuous random comments is one of my pet peeves, and in your post, it seemed a lame attempt to derail the argument.
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#127
10-22-2007, 02:26 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I bet all the people reading this forum that were in concentration camps are sooooooo mad right now. [/ QUOTE ] I can't tell if you're just a rude [censored] or if there's a point you are trying to make here, but I'm going to just assume the former. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see why both can't be true. The point was, as stated by someone else, who are you to say a whole group of people is offended by an ANALOGY. He wasn't saying escaping a concentration camp = leaving the United States. He was saying that people don't choose everything, and some decisions like that, when made, are going to be -ev either way. People being overly sensitive about innocuous random comments is one of my pet peeves, and in your post, it seemed a lame attempt to derail the argument. [/ QUOTE ] Well, people comparing horribly tame and not that bad things to the cold blooded murder of 12 million people is one of my pet peeves. I'm not on some PC rant here, but it is being purposefully obtuse to not see how what was said might be insulting.
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#129
10-22-2007, 02:35 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I bet all the people reading this forum that were in concentration camps are sooooooo mad right now. [/ QUOTE ] I can't tell if you're just a rude [censored] or if there's a point you are trying to make here, but I'm going to just assume the former. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see why both can't be true. The point was, as stated by someone else, who are you to say a whole group of people is offended by an ANALOGY. He wasn't saying escaping a concentration camp = leaving the United States. He was saying that people don't choose everything, and some decisions like that, when made, are going to be -ev either way. People being overly sensitive about innocuous random comments is one of my pet peeves, and in your post, it seemed a lame attempt to derail the argument. [/ QUOTE ] Well, people comparing horribly tame and not that bad things to the cold blooded murder of 12 million people is one of my pet peeves. I'm not on some PC rant here, but it is being purposefully obtuse to not see how what was said might be insulting. [/ QUOTE ] It seems like a PC rant to me. He's not saying people in America are suffering like people in concentration camps. I hardly remember the original argument, but it has something to do with both are in situations they don't support, but don't have much choice but to participate in. I think it was about someone working in the government but disagreeing with the government.
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#130
10-22-2007, 02:42 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
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A large part of my family died in them, I have spoken to people who survived them, I have spoken to people who have lost relatives in them. I honestly would not have thought this needed explaining, and find it somewhat disgusting that you feel the need to question my authority to decide that people who lost their lives in as dehumanizing a fashion as possible might be insulted by being compared to some douche bag not leaving a country he doesn't like. [/ QUOTE ] Well for starters people who are dead cannot be insulted by anything. But of the people who are alive are you claiming to speak for all of them are you claiming to speak for some of them or are you claiming that in your opinion they would be insulted or that in your opinion they should be insulted? Secondly what is it about me questioning your authority that you feel is disgusting? Thirdly a comparison doesn't mean something is exactly the same as some thing else in fact it doesn't even mean that something is like something else I can compare a supernova to a grapefruit. The analogy was hyperbole to get a point across. To me it seems a little narcissistic to imagine that because you personally are insulted by something that all other people would be insulted by the same thing. If I had survived a concentration camp I would be insulted that people hadn't learnt the horrors of statism and the violence that is the inevitable consequence. [ QUOTE ] Wow. I guess when you believe that paying taxes is morally equivalent to being raped in the [censored] by the government, it's pretty easy to say something like this and not think twice about it. [/ QUOTE ] Forcing someone to pay taxes and raping someone are both morally wrong. They differ by degree of severity but they stem from the same moral crime; violation of self ownership.
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