Fire Mike Holmgren

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Um, guys, I think we owe bernie an appology.

AVERAGE DPAR 2002 - 2007
1. Manning, 120
2. Brady, 75
3. Palmer, 68
4. Green, 66
5. Hasselbeck, 58
6. Bulger, 54
7. Favre, 51
8. Roethlisberger, 49
9. McNabb, 45
10. Pennington, 45
EDIT: 11. Gannon, 44
12. McNair, 43
13. Brees, 42


TOTAL DPAR 2002 - 2007
1. Manning, 721
2. Brady, 449
3. Green, 393
4. Hasselbeck, 350
5. Bulger, 322
6. Favre, 303
7. Palmer, 273
8. McNabb, 271
9. Pennington, 268
10. McNair, 258
11. Brees, 253
12. Culpepper, 195

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for doing the comparison PF.

I'm suprised at how much higher Manning is than Brady.

b

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Branch was easiily worth a 1st round pick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Randy Moss fetched a 4th rounder, Wes Welker a 2nd rounder. neither of them are being paid Deion Branch money. They are both arguably better/more valuable than Deion. Welker and Branch are close I think.

it's transactions like that they have allowed the Pats to stay on top - getting cheaper AND better while gaining draft picks. Deion Branch for 1st rounder + big money against the cap is at best dubious for the Seahawks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Branch wasn't worth a 1st round pick, but comparing the Moss deal to any is unfair. Moss would only go to the Patriots - the Raiders had no negiotating leg to stand on. You may as well cite the Terrell Owens to Philadelphia deal as another great piece of general managing.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Branch was easiily worth a 1st round pick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Randy Moss fetched a 4th rounder, Wes Welker a 2nd rounder. neither of them are being paid Deion Branch money. They are both arguably better/more valuable than Deion. Welker and Branch are close I think.

it's transactions like that they have allowed the Pats to stay on top - getting cheaper AND better while gaining draft picks. Deion Branch for 1st rounder + big money against the cap is at best dubious for the Seahawks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Branch wasn't worth a 1st round pick, but comparing the Moss deal to any is unfair. Moss would only go to the Patriots - the Raiders had no negiotating leg to stand on. You may as well cite the Terrell Owens to Philadelphia deal as another great piece of general managing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't exactly recall his Oakland contract, but, did he have a no-trade clause? he clearly wanted out, but couldn't lots of teams traded for him?

granted, he was making a lot of money - and restructed his deal to come to NE - but given how he is playing now, he's just going to get a huge contract when this year is over. in other words, his contract wasn't THAT bad.

anyways, the Patriots didn't want to pay Deion Branch the $$ he wanted, and the Seahawks not only paid him the $$ but gave up a 1st round pick for the right to do so. that is pretty ludicrous.

so perhaps for a better comparison:

Deion Branch: 1st round pick, 6 year $40m deal
Wes Welker: 2nd round pick, 5 year $18m deal

Branch is probably a bit better, but not THAT much better

[capone0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let's face it though, the trade for Branch hasn't worked at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Branch was easiily worth a 1st round pick.

Holding on to D-Jack and K-Robinson too long was worse.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

Branch was NOT worth a 1st round pick. Hardly any decent WRs are worth a 1st round pick. Branch is barely a top 30 WR. Of the top 30 WR the only guys I would trade a first round pick for, considering age are Roy Williams, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson maybe Wayne. I'd think about Braylon (only 1 good year and injury problems), Bowe (amazing first year but then again only 6 games in), Calvin Johnson (stud, can he be like 1 on the field).

I take out Terrell and Randy due to age and off the field issues. I take out Marvin due to age and I take out Holt for the same reason.

Honestly first round picks for decent WRs are hardly ever done. First round picks are only traded to move up drafts. Drafts are also liked b/c they dont' have to pay talent very high due to the rookie cap.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
Deion Branch: 1st round pick, 6 year $40m deal
Wes Welker: 2nd round pick, 5 year $18m deal

[/ QUOTE ]

In football, the guaranteed money is the most important thing to look at in a deal... often times contracts will have backloaded salary that players will never receive.

[capone0]

Burleson's contract is the best example of this. Nobody that bad would ever get that kind of money e/c in the current backloaded era.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Deion Branch: 1st round pick, 6 year $40m deal
Wes Welker: 2nd round pick, 5 year $18m deal

[/ QUOTE ]

In football, the guaranteed money is the most important thing to look at in a deal... often times contracts will have backloaded salary that players will never receive.

[/ QUOTE ]

correct, I just didn't feel like typing the details. here they are

Branch basically had $13m guaranteed

Cap Hits

2006 3,500,000
2007 5,980,000
2008 6,760,000
2009 7,540,000
2010 8,070,000
2011 7,150,000

Welker had more like $9m guaranteed

Cap hits:


2007 1,706,720
2008 3,731,720
2009 3,981,720
2010 4,231,720
2011 4,531,720

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Branch was easiily worth a 1st round pick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Randy Moss fetched a 4th rounder, Wes Welker a 2nd rounder. neither of them are being paid Deion Branch money. They are both arguably better/more valuable than Deion. Welker and Branch are close I think.

it's transactions like that they have allowed the Pats to stay on top - getting cheaper AND better while gaining draft picks. Deion Branch for 1st rounder + big money against the cap is at best dubious for the Seahawks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Branch wasn't worth a 1st round pick, but comparing the Moss deal to any is unfair. Moss would only go to the Patriots - the Raiders had no negiotating leg to stand on. You may as well cite the Terrell Owens to Philadelphia deal as another great piece of general managing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't exactly recall his Oakland contract, but, did he have a no-trade clause? he clearly wanted out, but couldn't lots of teams traded for him?

granted, he was making a lot of money - and restructed his deal to come to NE - but given how he is playing now, he's just going to get a huge contract when this year is over. in other words, his contract wasn't THAT bad.

anyways, the Patriots didn't want to pay Deion Branch the $$ he wanted, and the Seahawks not only paid him the $$ but gave up a 1st round pick for the right to do so. that is pretty ludicrous.

so perhaps for a better comparison:

Deion Branch: 1st round pick, 6 year $40m deal
Wes Welker: 2nd round pick, 5 year $18m deal

Branch is probably a bit better, but not THAT much better

[/ QUOTE ]

You also have to think of who they may have gotten with that 1st round pick that they gave up. Was Branch better than anyone they'd have gotten? I think so.

b

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
You also have to think of who they may have gotten with that 1st round pick that they gave up. Was Branch better than anyone they'd have gotten? I think so.

b


[/ QUOTE ]

but you're completely ignoring the value of having a player locked up for 5 years at a cheap salary (around $1.5m / year). in the salary cap NFL, this is a huge deal.

[capone0]

Cause that's a good way to judge.


You should compare it to what other WR of his caliber have gone for and they paid way, way too much for a solid WR. It's also pretty hard to judge the draft already but I'll bet you 1 of the 250+ draft picks behind him will be better than Branch.