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#121
10-12-2007, 04:15 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] As for internal government intervention, I don't know how many countries you have studied, been too or lived in, but from an outside perspective the US is quite low on it. [/ QUOTE ] There are many levels of government in the US. Some areas of the US have very strict gun control laws; by coincidence these are the same areas that have very high crime rates. [/ QUOTE ] Yes that doesn't surprise me. I only theorize that having a pro-gun culture leads to an increase in violent crime - esp murders/deaths, I don't think restricting them later would help much - the culture is still there and mostly only people who adhere to the law already would follow the new rules anyway. 
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#122
10-12-2007, 04:19 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] As for internal government intervention, I don't know how many countries you have studied, been too or lived in, but from an outside perspective the US is quite low on it. [/ QUOTE ] There are many levels of government in the US. Some areas of the US have very strict gun control laws; by coincidence these are the same areas that have very high crime rates. [/ QUOTE ] Yes that doesn't surprise me. I only theorize that having a pro-gun culture leads to an increase in violent crime - esp murders/deaths, I don't think restricting them later would help much - the culture is still there and mostly only people who adhere to the law already would follow the new rules anyway. [/ QUOTE ] This is, and for the most part, has always been, the NRA line.
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#123
10-12-2007, 04:22 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
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[ QUOTE ] I'm really surpsised that people would want college kids carrying firearms. [/ QUOTE ] Do you understand the difference between "You do not have the authority to restrict activity X" and "You want people to do activity X"? [/ QUOTE ] But we're talking about private schools who do have the authority to restrict X. My argument is that the schools rightly SHOULD want to restrict X.
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#124
10-12-2007, 04:24 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
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Of course he doesn't. If he understood that he would have nothing to whine about, and might be resigned to honest arguments. [/ QUOTE ] (1) thanks... but I can speak for myself. (2) this thread is spawned by a private school restricting a student's access to firearms (3) what exactly did I write that was dishonest? or was that just a non sequitor jab?
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#125
10-12-2007, 04:27 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Of course he doesn't. If he understood that he would have nothing to whine about, and might be resigned to honest arguments. [/ QUOTE ] (1) thanks... but I can speak for myself. (2) this thread is spawned by a private school restricting a student's access to firearms (3) what exactly did I write that was dishonest? or was that just a non sequitor jab? [/ QUOTE ] So are you saying that a private school can make that decision, but a state school should not? I agree with that, and I agree and support any school choosing to put the safety of the students ahead of their liberal agenda.
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#126
10-12-2007, 04:31 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
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Well, genius, they already have them. [/ QUOTE ] sigh... but they aren't allowed to bring them to school. Which is what this thread is about, isn't it? [ QUOTE ] You're really neck-deep in several fallacies of aggregation. 1) Some college students are drunk and stupid. + 2) Some college students have guns. = 3) Anyone opposing a forcible disarmament of college students is advocating arming drunk stupid people. It's FOOLPROOF LOGIC! [/ QUOTE ] I don't think even you think that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that I believe, as a group in general, that if more college students had easy access to firearms (I'm going to allege something that I only have observational evidence for... most college students don't have easy access to firearms at school... I could be way off but Its my belief that this is accurate.) Some private universities don't allow their students to carry firearms. Some people think that we'd be better off if everyone carried guns. I'm arguing that we're better off if most youths don't carry firearms. I suggested that the 2001 Surgeon General's report found a correlation between youth violence and access to firearms to support my beliefs. Out of this.. you conclude that I'm saying, "Anyone opposing a forcible disarmament of college students is advocating arming drunk stupid people." Your retorts are a bit dishonest.
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#127
10-12-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
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Listen, I really do not like having this conversation with people who've never stared down the barrel of a criminal's gun, which was illegal by way. It was an invisible gun. The authorities had done their job, they had made it illegal. Illegal guns don't kill people, right? When you actually have some knowledge of what you're talking about MidGe, and are not happily and ignorantly residing in the country with the highest burglary rate in the world, we can discuss firearms. You say I am falling for the NRA propaganda? No. In fact, you're falling for government propaganda, telling you you're safer without guns. [ QUOTE ] Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State. - Heinrich Himmler [/ QUOTE ] I always like to bring this quote in whenever this discussion is brought up, because Himmler, in this instance, very dumbly decided to tell the truth. The Germans stripped their people of weapons for control, not for "safety". [/ QUOTE ] Wow. Just...wow. At this point I'm pretty sure it's useless to even try and talk with these people about anything. To compare Nazi social policy with the decisions supported by the majority of citizens in a free country has to qualify as some sort of mental...something. Not illness, but, just...wow. I'm pretty sure I can't even go on in this thread, I don't think.
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#128
10-12-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
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FWIW, I was a Campus Police officer while a student in college, and I carried a gun on me off duty, to class, and I never shot anyone. I had several friends who were not campus police officers who carried concealed weapons to class, it never bothered me. [/ QUOTE ] My brother stole the keys to my parents car when he was 10 and took the car for a drive around the neighborhood. He didn't get into any accidents or kill anyone. Therefore, I conclude that all 10 year olds should be allowed to drive cars.
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#129
10-12-2007, 04:34 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Listen, I really do not like having this conversation with people who've never stared down the barrel of a criminal's gun, which was illegal by way. It was an invisible gun. The authorities had done their job, they had made it illegal. Illegal guns don't kill people, right? When you actually have some knowledge of what you're talking about MidGe, and are not happily and ignorantly residing in the country with the highest burglary rate in the world, we can discuss firearms. You say I am falling for the NRA propaganda? No. In fact, you're falling for government propaganda, telling you you're safer without guns. [ QUOTE ] Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State. - Heinrich Himmler [/ QUOTE ] I always like to bring this quote in whenever this discussion is brought up, because Himmler, in this instance, very dumbly decided to tell the truth. The Germans stripped their people of weapons for control, not for "safety". [/ QUOTE ] Wow. Just...wow. At this point I'm pretty sure it's useless to even try and talk with these people about anything. To compare Nazi social policy with the decisions supported by the majority of citizens in a free country has to qualify as some sort of mental...something. Not illness, but, just...wow. I'm pretty sure I can't even go on in this thread, I don't think. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think majority means what you think it means.
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#130
10-12-2007, 04:36 PM
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Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] FWIW, I was a Campus Police officer while a student in college, and I carried a gun on me off duty, to class, and I never shot anyone. I had several friends who were not campus police officers who carried concealed weapons to class, it never bothered me. [/ QUOTE ] My brother stole the keys to my parents car when he was 10 and took the car for a drive around the neighborhood. He didn't get into any accidents or kill anyone. Therefore, I conclude that all 10 year olds should be allowed to drive cars. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, I agree with this statement! If we reduced the driving age, we'd have less deaths at 16. But that's another thread for another time.
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