What is good about faith?

[smurfitup]

I think the most obvious benefit of religious faith is that it gives people the motivation (however superficial) to perform good deeds and treat other humans with respect. Faith in the after-life of course works brilliantly in this regard, but faith in the sense of God's presence in the world and other human beings might convince one to only focus on the positive aspects of a situation, or life in general. Also, I think faith gives people the impetus to strive toward a certain endpoint (thinking that they are destined to be there by God) or to struggle through difficulties in life knowing that "things will always work out for the best." Basically, faith makes people happy.

With all that being said, I remember this great quote from my philosophy of religion professor that an unwavering conviction in anything ultimately degenerates into narcissism. Basically, when you so firmly align yourself with an idea or a concept, it becomes impossible to look at the object critically, and your faith eventually turns into self-righteousness.

[smurfitup]

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According to happiness studies -- and I'm not familiar with the methodology, but they are considered credible in the academic psychology world -- religion is +EV for happiness.

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EV+ compared to what? compared to atheism? i dont think i have ever met one unhappy atheist. atheist seems to appreciate the life they have more, since they know its the only one they'll get.

most studies claim that
lack of faith -> higher IQ
higher IQ -> more money
more money -> more hapiness
qed.

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You don't know any unhappy atheists? Are you kidding? And money does not lead to happiness. Widely accepted by academic psychologists as well.

[smurfitup]

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Yes, but does it *ultimately* matter if you experience pleasure or pain in bountiful quantities? No. I'm not arguing that people aren't motivated by desires. Obviously they are. Rather, I'm saying that the fact that there is no overarching reason for your existence, coupled with the fact that your existence will be terminated in the merest blip of a merest blip, renders any reason why you do this or that essentially moot. If you believe otherwise then I think a kind of implicit faith (that what you are doing DOES matter for some reason) must underlie that belief.

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QFT

[Brad1970]

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Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

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I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

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Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

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What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

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Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

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I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

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LOL. How did you come up with that??

Let me reiterate...I have MUCH better things to do than to sit around reading some psycho babble garbage from some dead guy.

[Kaj]

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Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

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I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

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Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

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LOL. How did you come up with that??

Let me reiterate...I have MUCH better things to do than to sit around reading some psycho babble garbage from some dead guy.

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I know, I know. You have better things to do than read study of human mind from some 20th century dude. Like read the ignorant mystical babble from some dead guys from 2000 years ago. And then dedicate your life to that babble without questioning it.

[Brad1970]

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Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

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I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. How did you come up with that??

Let me reiterate...I have MUCH better things to do than to sit around reading some psycho babble garbage from some dead guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, I know. You have better things to do than read study of human mind from some 20th century dude. Like read the ignorant mystical babble from some dead guys from 2000 years ago. And then dedicate your life to that babble without questioning it.

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That's exactly the response I was expecting....Tell you what. I'll stipulate that this Jung fellow was a great thinker/writer/etc of the 20th century based on your input since I know nothing about him... IF ...you'll stipulate that you've never read the Holy Bible and will take the Christian view that it is correct & is the infallible Word of God. How about it?

[Kaj]

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Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

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I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

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Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. How did you come up with that??

Let me reiterate...I have MUCH better things to do than to sit around reading some psycho babble garbage from some dead guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, I know. You have better things to do than read study of human mind from some 20th century dude. Like read the ignorant mystical babble from some dead guys from 2000 years ago. And then dedicate your life to that babble without questioning it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly the response I was expecting....Tell you what. I'll stipulate that this Jung fellow was a great thinker/writer/etc of the 20th century based on your input since I know nothing about him... IF ...you'll stipulate that you've never read the Holy Bible and will take the Christian view that it is correct & is the infallible Word of God. How about it?

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Except I was a devout Christian until 17, have read every word of the NT, and most of the OT. And still have a Bible on my shelf that I pull out and peruse every now and again.

[Subfallen]

Um, no. I've read the Bible many times.

[foal]

I stipulate that you are a doody-head!

[Brad1970]

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Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

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I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. How did you come up with that??

Let me reiterate...I have MUCH better things to do than to sit around reading some psycho babble garbage from some dead guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, I know. You have better things to do than read study of human mind from some 20th century dude. Like read the ignorant mystical babble from some dead guys from 2000 years ago. And then dedicate your life to that babble without questioning it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly the response I was expecting....Tell you what. I'll stipulate that this Jung fellow was a great thinker/writer/etc of the 20th century based on your input since I know nothing about him... IF ...you'll stipulate that you've never read the Holy Bible and will take the Christian view that it is correct & is the infallible Word of God. How about it?

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Except I was a devout Christian until 17, have read every word of the NT, and most of the OT. And still have a Bible on my shelf that I pull out and peruse every now and again.

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Devout huh? What happened since then? Which denomination were you?

Sounds like you need to peruse it more often.