Stars 25-50 Shortstackers

[BobboFitos]

i love cts for:
[ QUOTE ]
cts687: well at least u play short stack u lose ur money slower
Bill Chen: heh also make money slower
cts687: requires u be a winner in hs nl games

[/ QUOTE ]

haha

[Plato]

em2, does your whining now apply to 5/10 shortstacks too? Cause I'm playing with you at 5/10 right now n don't see you on the 25/50 tables. BUSTO?

[Stinger88]

I log on to play 25-50, get on a table, and 6 of the other 8 players are shortstacking. I'm quitting now before I throw up.

[Prevaricator]

[ QUOTE ]
I log on to play 25-50, get on a table, and 6 of the other 8 players are shortstacking. I'm quitting now before I throw up.

[/ QUOTE ]

i saw this too [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[ilikeaces86_]

WTF

[AJackson]

[ QUOTE ]
btw these threads are retarded all they do is expose the benefits of ratholing and make more people interested in it

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt. It's made me interested and I have the bankroll. They were even nice enough to point out the big winners. I imagine I could watch the profitable short stackers for a few days to figure out their hand ranges and would be good to go. It sounds like I could potentially double my hourly rate and no longer have to spend countless hours thinking about post flop play.

That being said, OP is right. You guys need to get after PS to up the min buy-in. There isn't a reason why they shouldn't up it if enough players ask. Sitting here arguing about ethics is a waste of time.

[WutRUTryin2Hit]

[ QUOTE ]
I log on to play 25-50, get on a table, and 6 of the other 8 players are shortstacking because of this thread. I'm quitting now before I throw up.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Daut44]

Just writing a rough draft for a letter to stars.
Read it over, let me know what changes need to be made, and lets all send it to maybe get the ball rolling.


Dear Stars Support,

I believe that the shortstacking situation in no limit games on stars has gotten out of control. I play 25/50 nl and everytime I wish to join a table there are at least 4 shortstacks in the game, all of whom immediately leave the table if they double up.

Despite what most players (including myself) consider unethical, I cant say I blame these shortstacks for "ratholing", because with the current setup, it is a profitable and exploitable flaw in the system.

Since the minimum buyin for a NL game is 20bb, and someone can play near perfect poker with 20bb, they have an inherent edge in the games. Every player at the table is forced to adapt to the shortstack's game, but not the other way around since the effective stacksize for the shortstack is his own. I propose that we change the min buyin to at least 30 or 40bb, which would reduce the built in edge the shortstacks can have from such a low minimum buy in.

Furthermore, in casinos the minimum buyin for a NL game is typically 30bb. The reason it has to be set low in a casino is because the smallest available game is typically 1/2nl, and someone without a lot of money cant always move down to play a game he has enough money for. However, online, one can move down to a smaller limit since the stakes only end when our money system runs out of smaller denominations. This argues for a higher minimum buyin in online games than in a casino.

Secondly, these players also constantly leave and rejoin tables 30 minutes later. This time period is much too short. It allows these exploitable flaws of shortstacking to be taken advantage of over and over again with players leaving and joining other tables then rejoining the original ones. I propose that this time is raised to at least 60 minutes.

In addition to the logical arguments presented above about why the rules should be changed, there are a few emotional ones.

Firstly, having a large amount of shortstacks significantly tightens up the games because whenever you have a shortstack behind you, you have to worry about him going all in, so opening raise ranges become much tighter, which result in much more boring and uneventful games.

Secondly, as mentioned before, many players feel that buying in short, hit and running, then returning at the soonest possible time is unethical. There are a few things in poker which aren't against the rules, yet many people believe aren't morally proper, but most cant be fixed. For example, slowrolling is extremely unethical, but this cannot be stopped in any atmosphere. However, by raising the minimum buying and increasing the amount of time before a player can come back to a table with the minimum buyin, this unethical situation can be greatly lessened in frequency.

To summarize, the following changes are being proposed:
1. raising the minimum buyin in NL cash games from 20bb to at least 30 or 40bb
2. raising the amount of time after leaving a table that a player can return with a different stacksize from 30 min to at least 60min.

This email will be sent to the support team by a large number of high stakes players. We sincerely hope that a change can be made in the currently flawed system.

Thank you very much,
xxxxxxxx (your name)




the only change i'd think about now is changing all the I's to We's. anything else you guys notice?

[Isura]

Daut,

One more thing to add to your 1st point is that recreational players don't enjoy the shortstacks either. They like to see more flops and "play poker" and shortstacking disrupts the enjoyment for all the other players.

[Daut44]

just got this from actionjeff, putting it here so i dont forget:


i think ur missing a big point

which is that it hurts the action in the games

and that many regulars have stated that they wont even play if there are manty short stackers at the table

and that the 25-50 NL games have been running less and less regularly, as a result of this

stars would care about that, and research would confirm it
you suggest the problem is shrot stacks

might interest them more





very good point to add