Hedge funds and the stock market - ask me anything til i get bored

[BDaws]

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jungle,
wharton is baller

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Yes. Wharton is the #1 undergraduate business program according to Business Week. Rankings like this are usually flawed in some way though. UVA is #2. I'm pretty pumped about that.

http://bwnt.businessweek.com/bschool...te/06rankings/

Just curious, but what varsity sport? Also, you could drop the fraternity for 1 semester. A bid is good for 1 year, at least at UVA it is. So you could pledge again in the fall.

[Scorpion Man]

nums are approx i just pulled them off yahoo
Jun 95 (our inception) 544 (index 100)
12/00 1469 (index 270)
12/04 1211 (index 222)

Just shoving the above returns compounded into a spreadsheet i get
6/1/95 index to 100
1/1/00 253
12/04 384

The number I gave must be slightly low because we were never behind the S&P compound at any point (there was a graph in our presentation at all times of this relationship)
So we were way ahead of the S&P over that time having taken the risk of on avaerage around 6% volality vs like 17% or something for the S&P 500. Its a huge sharpe ratio. ALl that aside, I am proud of some of those years and not others. Its funny...2002 looks bad but it was average for the hedge fund industry adn much better than the S&P. Never going down does wonders for your compounding.



that said, and people don't understand this..the s&p is NOT the relevant comparison. You could have easily levered us outside of the product and if you simply accepted the S&Ps volatility gotten ridiciulous returns with no down years except the one marginal one. As I said, our investors, who were predominantly endowments and pension funds, chose us for safety ...that is the "box" we filled in a portfolio. In 2000, for example, we had little to no net exposure. Our shorts and longs were about equal.

If our results were not good, how do you think we attracted $5billion?

[Scorpion Man]

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hey, thanks for doing this.

I have a question regarding whether you think it's better to go with a more well-rounded path when it comes to internships during college, or to stick specifically with one field.

For instance, after my freshman year I had a great internship with a vice president in the wealth management division at ubs, and I'm trying to decide whether it's worth it to pursue another finance related internship this summer (when most of the good finance firms in ny are looking for juniors/seniors) or possibly go with a marketing or even human resources internship this summer.

thanks,

jeff

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reason ton go well rounded would be too try different things so you can figure out what you want. i think depth is unequivocally better for getting a job.

[BDaws]

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[ QUOTE ]
hey, thanks for doing this.

I have a question regarding whether you think it's better to go with a more well-rounded path when it comes to internships during college, or to stick specifically with one field.

For instance, after my freshman year I had a great internship with a vice president in the wealth management division at ubs, and I'm trying to decide whether it's worth it to pursue another finance related internship this summer (when most of the good finance firms in ny are looking for juniors/seniors) or possibly go with a marketing or even human resources internship this summer.

thanks,

jeff

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reason ton go well rounded would be too try different things so you can figure out what you want. i think depth is unequivocally better for getting a job.

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Being really good at one thing seems to be way better for getting into college as well so I trust this is true.

[junglewarfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jungle,
wharton is baller

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. Wharton is the #1 undergraduate business program according to Business Week. Rankings like this are usually flawed in some way though. UVA is #2. I'm pretty pumped about that.

http://bwnt.businessweek.com/bschool...te/06rankings/

Just curious, but what varsity sport? Also, you could drop the fraternity for 1 semester. A bid is good for 1 year, at least at UVA it is. So you could pledge again in the fall.

[/ QUOTE ]

dropping pledging now would pretty much [censored] up the whole dynamic of joining with my pledge class. we rush in the first couple weeks of january and just started pledging. anyways my question is kind of stupid, there is no real answer.

it is kind of annoying to me how you cant major in finance or accounting in the college at penn considering there is such a wall between wharton and arts and sciences here, i realize that is part of the whole "wharton name" prestiege but it leaves people like me who werent 100% committed to doing wharton from the start of the college process in a weird spot.

[stephan]

I'm doing an internship this summer where I run my own painting company. It's rated as a very selective internship by Princeton Review, and seems to be pretty good. They teach you how to do some marketing, advertising, management type stuff, start you off with like $4k, then you run the thing yourself.

Is this a decent internship?

[ngn]

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I'm doing an internship this summer where I run my own painting company. It's rated as a very selective internship by Princeton Review, and seems to be pretty good. They teach you how to do some marketing, advertising, management type stuff, start you off with like $4k, then you run the thing yourself.

Is this a decent internship?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow no. University Painters or College Painters or whatever. While they are not a scam, the two people I know who did it wasn't very satisfied (both went to Wharton if that matters). Any sale you make, the company automatically gets half, the painters get like 40% and you get 10%. You use that 10% to "pay off" that 4k before you start making any money. While one of the two people managed to make about a grand after one summer, the other had to work until late september to break even. Good experience maybe, but poor pay and leaves a bad taste in your mouth. On the other hand, if you really like selling (cold calls, signs, flyers) you can make money if you do high volume.

[ngn]

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I'm a freshman at upenn, I'm thinking of doing an internal transfer into wharton from the college. Right now my GPA is on the edge of eligibility, and I am seriously considering dropping the varsity sport I play for the semester to help me make it. Doing both that and pledging I don't think its humanly possible to get the 3.8 I need, and I am definitely not dropping my fraternity stuff.

Anyways the real question is, if I want to eventually want to work in trading or finance, how much will the wharton name add to my resume vs a regular arts and science econ degree? I'm going to end up taking a bunch of finance and accounting classes there anyway fwiw. If I did drop the sport I would pick it up again, I know the 4 year varsity athlete (possible captain) would be a large boost to my resume. I realize that the answer is up to me and will probably be "it doesn't really make that much of a difference in the long run", but its something I've been thinking about a lot and I don't really know whats best. Any input you have on the value added by doing wharton would be appreciated. Thanks a lot for the great thread

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I regret not trying to get into the M&T program (Wharton and Engineering for those not familiar). So it has to be the MBA route for me.

[Scorpion Man]

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I'm a freshman at upenn, I'm thinking of doing an internal transfer into wharton from the college. Right now my GPA is on the edge of eligibility, and I am seriously considering dropping the varsity sport I play for the semester to help me make it. Doing both that and pledging I don't think its humanly possible to get the 3.8 I need, and I am definitely not dropping my fraternity stuff.

Anyways the real question is, if I want to eventually want to work in trading or finance, how much will the wharton name add to my resume vs a regular arts and science econ degree? I'm going to end up taking a bunch of finance and accounting classes there anyway fwiw. If I did drop the sport I would pick it up again, I know the 4 year varsity athlete (possible captain) would be a large boost to my resume. I realize that the answer is up to me and will probably be "it doesn't really make that much of a difference in the long run", but its something I've been thinking about a lot and I don't really know whats best. Any input you have on the value added by doing wharton would be appreciated. Thanks a lot for the great thread

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Hard decisions. #1 is don't do anything you will regret...don't play the sport if you regret the possibility it will impact your grades adn don't drop the sport if it will effect your ability to play badminton and you will never forgive yourself.

I don't have much of an opinion on the Wharton vs. non Wharton thing. I would think grades and experience woudl be a lot more important, but it has to help in the sense that you are competing with so many people from the Wharton side that you run the risk of them stepping ahead of you. I will defer to others on this one.

Resumes and careers are like buildigns. You need a strong foundation. The early blocks you lay are permanent and very important in setting the direction, style, attractiveness, and value of your building. It is ESSENTIAL to get good grades to achieve the goals you are talking about. Whether its more important to do the fraternity thing, etc than make sure you get the grades is up to you. Or, you can be superman and work like an absolute madman...its only for a relatively short period of itme, and in that way you can try to have your cake and eat it too. I can tell you, my 3.85 went a long way...it puts you at the top of the pile of every interview, and you never have to answer questions about why it wasn't better. One thing I did was take a lighter load and make sure I got the As. Some people take more courses than they need to and then it impacts their GPAs negatively. From a tactical standpoint, that is a mistake (not necessarily from an enrichmena standpoint, obviously).

The varsity captain thing goes a long way . If you can put up a 3.8 or better and be varsity captain of badminton, you will have an excellent chance of a job at a top bank, I would think. If you can really just take a break from the sport and come back, that sounds like a great option.

[NajdorfDefense]

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Thanks for answering.

Related to this question, I often see people try to 'get in through the backdoor' by going into back office positions then trying to make the jump. In your career, how often have you seen someone successfully make the jump from back office to the front office? My guess would be 1 or 2 exceptionally smart people.

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I'll jump in on a few points, where my experiences may differ.

This question - if you are smart, the 'back/mid-office' is a GREAT way to get your foot in the door. The head of Credit Default Swap/Option trading at CSFB started that way, he couldn't get a job when he graduated because the market was so tough. A few years later he was running the desk after getting moved to front, promoted, and his bosses quit for Lehman. I know of similar examples.

The really, really good prop traders I know all were hired by SAC, Moore, and others and have made their fortune many times over by now. We had 3 guys picked off *one* of our prop desks by diff firms, one of them now runs an EM desk for SAC. One guy ran Moore's Corporate credit trading. The top shops all pick these guys off.