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#121
12-09-2006, 03:45 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
Check the first entry under the verb version of "profit" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/profit [/ QUOTE ] I was refering to profit as a surplus above and beyond your costs. [ QUOTE ] Are you saying that this is an example of theft but taking Mr. Y's milk and simply giving it to Boy X isn't?(I'm assuming you're in favor of a more socialist society, correct me if I'm wrong). [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand the question. Simply stealing it with no one mowing his lawn? That's obviously theft. Where did I suggest it wasn't? [ QUOTE ] I thought I'd heard it all, but arguing that capitalism is theft is one for the ages. [/ QUOTE ] lmfao. Surely you must be kidding. Where have you been for the past century and a half? There was this guy...Karl Marx...you should look into him. If not him, maybe Friedrich Engels. 
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#122
12-09-2006, 03:48 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand the question. Simply stealing it with no one mowing his lawn? That's obviously theft. Where did I suggest it wasn't? [/ QUOTE ] So I guess you're not in favor of redistributing any wealth? My mistake, I appologize.
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#123
12-09-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] At what point do I begin engaging in theft? [/ QUOTE ] In none of those examples did you "profit;" you were simply properly compensated. Say in your mowing example you agree to mow Mr. Y's lawn for a gallon of milk. But you then turn around and tell Boy X that you'll give him half a gallon of milk to mow Mr. Y's lawn, while you do nothing. Now you've robbed Boy X of half a gallon of milk. [/ QUOTE ] This is a voluntariy agreement between people. Are you saying that this is an example of theft but taking Mr. Y's milk and simply giving it to Boy X isn't?(I'm assuming you're in favor of a more socialist society, correct me if I'm wrong). I thought I'd heard it all, but arguing that capitalism is theft is one for the ages. [/ QUOTE ] He's arguing standard Marxist labor theory of value, IIRC.
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#124
12-09-2006, 03:54 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
lmfao. Surely you must be kidding. Where have you been for the past century and a half? There was this guy...Karl Marx...you should look into him. If not him, maybe Friedrich Engels. [/ QUOTE ] I guess I just don't understand then. Three people engaged in COMPLETELY voluntary actions for lawn mowing and milk exchange are partaking in theft. I don't see it, I guess I'm just an idiot who hasn't read Marx though.
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#125
12-09-2006, 03:56 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] At what point do I begin engaging in theft? [/ QUOTE ] In none of those examples did you "profit;" you were simply properly compensated. Say in your mowing example you agree to mow Mr. Y's lawn for a gallon of milk. But you then turn around and tell Boy X that you'll give him half a gallon of milk to mow Mr. Y's lawn, while you do nothing. Now you've robbed Boy X of half a gallon of milk. [/ QUOTE ] This is a voluntariy agreement between people. Are you saying that this is an example of theft but taking Mr. Y's milk and simply giving it to Boy X isn't?(I'm assuming you're in favor of a more socialist society, correct me if I'm wrong). I thought I'd heard it all, but arguing that capitalism is theft is one for the ages. [/ QUOTE ] He's arguing standard Marxist labor theory of value, IIRC. [/ QUOTE ] HOGWASH!
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#126
12-09-2006, 03:56 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
Every parasitic ruling class invents fictional nonsense about why their reign is necessary, and benign. Guess what? It never has been, and certainly isn't now. [/ QUOTE ] snowball, I agree 100%. If you wouldn't mind commenting (since you said little on this issue in the OP), does this not also apply to the State?
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#127
12-09-2006, 04:03 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] lmfao. Surely you must be kidding. Where have you been for the past century and a half? There was this guy...Karl Marx...you should look into him. If not him, maybe Friedrich Engels. [/ QUOTE ] I guess I just don't understand then. Three people engaged in COMPLETELY voluntary actions for lawn mowing and milk exchange are partaking in theft. I don't see it, I guess I'm just an idiot who hasn't read Marx though. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I seemed like an ass here. I just wanted to point out that "capitalism = theft" is nothing new.
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#128
12-09-2006, 04:03 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] At what point do I begin engaging in theft? [/ QUOTE ] In none of those examples did you "profit;" you were simply properly compensated. Say in your mowing example you agree to mow Mr. Y's lawn for a gallon of milk. But you then turn around and tell Boy X that you'll give him half a gallon of milk to mow Mr. Y's lawn, while you do nothing. Now you've robbed Boy X of half a gallon of milk. [/ QUOTE ] I recently changed jobs. The company I now work for paid a fee to an intermediary (i.e. "recruiter"). Did this intermediary "rob" my new employer? After all, my new employer could have done all that work without going to a third party, right?
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#129
12-09-2006, 04:03 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] At what point do I begin engaging in theft? [/ QUOTE ] In none of those examples did you "profit;" you were simply properly compensated. Say in your mowing example you agree to mow Mr. Y's lawn for a gallon of milk. But you then turn around and tell Boy X that you'll give him half a gallon of milk to mow Mr. Y's lawn, while you do nothing. Now you've robbed Boy X of half a gallon of milk. [/ QUOTE ] Really? Would the boy have a lawn to mow if it wasn't for you? Are real estate agencies stealing when they buy a house and sell it for a higher amount? Is 2p2 stealing when they have ads set up for things they don't own?
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#130
12-09-2006, 04:09 PM
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Re: Richest 2% hold half of world\'s assets
[ QUOTE ]
lmfao. Surely you must be kidding. Where have you been for the past century and a half? There was this guy...Karl Marx...you should look into him. If not him, maybe Friedrich Engels. [/ QUOTE ] True enough, but there is also a century and a half of marginalist economics that pretty much renders the labor theory of value pretty much moot. As an aside, I think this whole topic is muddled since there are significant differences in the way people are using the terms "captialism" and "socialism". I think that Marx is right to say that "capitalism is theft" (or at the very least exploitative), if by capitalism we mean something like state-sponsorship of business--i.e., corporate capitalism, which is essentially what we have in this country. But Marx (along with many socislists) had a bad a habit of confusing exploitative capitalism with free markets and voluntary exchange--they aren't the same thing, and many times arguments designed to show the failure of a specific economy are then fallaciously applied to free markets.
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