UCLA Taser Incident - Quoted Dialogue From Video

[BCPVP]

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Have you ever tried to lift a 200 lb man who "goes limp"?

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You and dk are acting like this is impossible (or nearly so), especially for 4-6 police officers who are trained in moving people who resist. Just because it might be difficult doesn't mean that the cops have free reign to use weapons on him till he complies.

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If you drag him with his hands cuffed behind his back, you might dislocate his shoulder. Bang his knees on the stairs.

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And few would blame the cops for such injuries as he is the one who is resisting. If the guy really did have a medical condition (any confirmation on this?), using a taser could be lethal . Since this person is only passively resisting and you have to decide between moving him and causing a few scrapes or possibly serious injury, it shouldn't be much of a choice. Plus the police added to the disruption with the multiple tasings and shouting over and over the commands.

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Oh. Why did you handcuff him and place him under arrest? What is the charge at that moment?

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First trespassing since he wouldn't leave when asked. Then he gets disturbing the peace and disorderly conduct for his resistance. Not that hard.

[John Kilduff]

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also, im going to say this one more time. you highly underestimate how easy it is to move a 200 lb person who is passively resisting you. and you highly overestimate how painful a taser is in drive stun mode.

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I used to be a wrestler and I do know what it takes to lift a 200-lb. person, including one who is *actively* resisting you. If 4 or 5 policemen cannot fairly easily carry a 200-lb. person who is NOT actively resisting them, then maybe they could spend a little more time at the gym? But I don't think that would really even be necessary. Do you really think 4 or 5 full-grown men would have difficulty carrying a 200-lb. guy? I can't see it. They would have an *inconvenience*, surely, but not a *difficulty*.

[dknightx]

i used to be a wrestler too ... i dont see how its related. theres a difference between the type of lifting in wrestling and the type of lifting in this case.

if you disagree, find a 200lb person, and have him lay down flat on the ground. now try to carry him out of the room. now try it with 4 random dudes.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
if you disagree, find a 200lb person, and have him lay down flat on the ground. now try to carry him out of the room. now try it with 4 random dudes.

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Seriously, this wouldn't be that hard. And 4 to 6 cops should be able to do this to even be a cop.

[dknightx]

i would like to know what technique you would use. I'm only 175 pounds, and i know i could make it very difficult for 4 people to carry me out.

[Richard Tanner]

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i would like to know what technique you would use. I'm only 175 pounds, and i know i could make it very difficult for 4 people to carry me out.

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If I had asked you multiple times to leave, as had the owner/operater of the establishment, and you continued to refuse a lawful order, I guess I'd use a taser if I had one on me.

Cody

[Mickey Brausch]

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One could argue that refusing to listen to an officers request to "stand up" is "physical resistance".

[/ QUOTE ] One could argue that, of course, but then one would be wrong. If every resistance is physical for you, then you are changing the dictionary to suit your beliefs. Saying "No" to a representative of authority, for whatever reason, would be quite risky.

It's not supposed to be risky.

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I find it foolish to try to argue with you on this point because both of us are not police officers, nor do we have experience in this field.

[/ QUOTE ] If you find that foolish, then the foolish one would be you, since the default mode around 2+2 is that rarely, rather than usually, the other party is a cop.

(If you thought that "2+2" means two cop partners debating politics with another two cop partners, uh, no, that's not it. Sorry to disappoint. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

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The guy was urging his fellow students to do "something" (read the transcript), and you can see some of the surrounding students were getting agitated and upset.

[/ QUOTE ] Despite neither of us being cops, my personal judgement, on the basis of the video, is that not many students (cowards!) were following on this onme student's call for assistance -- if indeed that's what those "martyr" gibberish was all about. IMO, the whole thing was a bad call by the cops.

And that is amplified by the fact that we're talking about cops with presumably a lot of experience in dealing with college students. Imagine what that cop could potentially do on frat boys out to party.

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...seeing how they are having trouble lifting him out (he weighs 200lbs)...

[/ QUOTE ]Ah, they were right to tase his ass then. I now see the point behind Ghandi's fasting. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mickey Brausch

[Mickey Brausch]

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Um, you didn't answer my question at all. Is there any proof he was asked because he was Iranian?

[/ QUOTE ]I'm sorry I missed your question. No, there is no proof of that, only the guy's allegation. And there is nothing on the YouTube video to substantiate that.

I wouldn't expect the officers either to bring attention to him being of Iranian descent at that moment. My guess would be that this was purely the guy's own interpretation of events.

Being that as it may, that student, for his own reasons (such as believing he was been harassed), chose to refuse to walk away from the library or produce ID. However I or you might judge such a course of action (personally, I find it stupid, if that is indeed what he did), this does NOT give the right to the officers to casually and repeatedly tase him.

The excuses offered for the officers' conduct are baloney. The video on YouTube has already caused an uproar amongst UCLA students' parents, and rightly so, and the UCLA management is currently running for cover. College students are not cattle and their parents do not send them to college to be treated like cattle, prodded by the cowboy's whip whenever he commands 'em to move. UCLA management should come out of this incident having learned a couple of things about hiring, training and assessing personnel.

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I got asked for my ID all the time in retarded situations, and I'm not Iranian.

[/ QUOTE ]Nothing wrong with being asked for ID.

All I'm saying is that you should not be in fear of your physical safety when you will act a bit stupidly on one occasion (upset? absent-minded? drunk?) by someone.

Mickey Brausch

[BCPVP]

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i would like to know what technique you would use. I'm only 175 pounds, and i know i could make it very difficult for 4 people to carry me out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Handcuffs for arms and legs and we carry you out. Give us too much trouble and we drop you a few times on your face or sneak a balls shot in there. Would also be more than willing to drag you by the hair if possible. Throw a few pressure points in there for good measure. If all of that fails, then it's rear naked choke time till the lights go out.

[Mickey Brausch]

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At least mention that he was cop of the year in 2001.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm now afraid to ask what the criteria for that award would be.

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As for the night stick incident, i find it funny that they have to dig back over 15 years ago to find an incident. We lived in a very different time 15 years ago.

[/ QUOTE ]15 years ago hitting someone with the stick was more tolerated or understandable? I don't get it.

Well, what was going down circa 1991? I musta missed all the excitement.

Mickey Brausch