UFC 63 9/23/06

[antifish225]

Yea - BJ's only excuse should be that he was not in good enough shape.....I was watching the fight on Saturday with my girlfriend (who LOVES Hughs) and I had money on BJ - round 1 and round 2 BJ showed that he is pound for pound one of the top 2-3 fighters in the world - sick skills - as soon as round 3 started you could really just tell he did not have enough left in the tank to go on - 20 seconds into the round I had conceded defeat.....Hughs conditioning won him that fight plain and simple (and for the love of god I really need to stop betting against Hughs....)

[Performify]

Handful of thoughts on this post-Penn discussion:

1) those saying BJ gassed, it must have been the most complete gassing of anyone in history. Look at Penn vs GSP: when he gassed, he came out, played defense, and held on for two rounds. he didn't walk out with his hands down, get smacked in the face several times and not make any attempt to defend himself. Gassing vs GSP he was clearly able to still clench and hold on, and made active attempts to defend and very occsaionally still struck at GSP. in the third round against Hughes, he did none of those things. He staggered to the center of the ring with his hands down, got smacked in the face a couple times standing, threw an absolutely terrible takedown attempt, and then got taken down himself where he also didn't defend himself.

I said to my assembed crowd for the PPV that it looked like there was something wrong with Penn, that he was hurt, when he walked out to start the third round. I totally buy the injury.

But honestly it doesn't matter much. Penn dominated Hughes, absolutely dominated him for two rounds and almost won the fight. Then either due to injury or due to conditioning or both he went down hard in the third. There's almost zero value in picking apart why right now. Either you believe Penn or you don't. Those saying they don't believe his statement, I think you should read it for yourself if you haven't: Penn is very gracious to Hughes, makes zero excuses, just lays out the facts and says that's the way things happen.

I also think anyone trying to justify Hughes as a 2:1 favorite here after the fact based on the results is being very very results oriented. Its obvious that Hughes very much could have lost that fight and that it was a lot closer than the 2:1 line. Sincere congrats to everyone who won money on him. But I can't imagine Hughes woke up very happy this morning: he got pounded for two rounds, nearly submitted twice, and Penn then gassed or got hurt to end the fight. Hughes didn't win that fight, he just didn't lose.

2) I couldn't agree more re: Penn going to Big Bear. Regardless of if he gassed or was injured here. He's already tight with Tito, and I think regardless of why he got dropped in the third, he showed off in the first two rounds why many still consider him the best pound for pound MMA fighter in terms of technique and skill. Tito has obviously proven his value as a coach and trainer, and I think signing on with Team Punishment and working with Tito would make Penn absolutely unstoppable. Obviously Penn is a bit of a different story in that he's doing this because he wants to, not because he needs to, so its just a question of what his motivation is from this point.

3) Hopefully we'll see Penn recover and see Hughes / Penn III. They've fought twice and have split the two. They definitely need a third. I'd like to see Penn take three to four months to fight again, and then have him fight either GSP a second time, or Diego Sanchez, and then Hughes. Although if it takes 3-4 months for him to fully recover and train, it certainly wouldn't be out of line for the rubber match to occur as Penn's first fight back, considering Hughes could drop GSP and then Sanchez in that timeframe leaving him no other serious contender to fight again. Hughes is someone who will want to stay active.

Or I'd even love to see Penn drop to lightweight and just be content to rule that division. Then consider bulking up to take on Hughes again from there if he wanted to settle that score.

[bigalt]

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Sherdog.com is far and away the best MMA site out there, in my opinion.

The Penn interview was posted on his blog, bjpenn.com but was linked from the Sherdog forums...

[/ QUOTE ]Do you believe Penn? I watched the replay many times and I dont ever see him grabbing his ribs in pain. However, he does look like he is going to pass out. It looks like he would have fallin over on his own in the 3rd round.

I lost a little respect for Hughes after his comments after the fight.

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I know nothing about the sport, but it seems to me like giving any kind of sign to your opponent about which part of your body is hurting is a bad idea.

[Caldarooni]

I agree with much of your write-up except for the part about Penn "absolutely dominating Hughes in the first 2 rounds." While Hughes was lucky to escape the second round, don't forget he did get the takedown and almost full mount. It was a missed elbow while on top which led to the precarious position that almost cost him the belt.

I agree that Hughes as a 2-1 favorite over the best BJ in the ring would be laughable, but I also dont buy the notion that Hughes would lose this fight if Penn wasnt gassed/injured (I have watched the fight a number of times and would more likely believe the latter fwiw).

[BriMc]

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Sherdog.com is far and away the best MMA site out there, in my opinion.

The Penn interview was posted on his blog, bjpenn.com but was linked from the Sherdog forums...

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Unfortunately the level of discussion there is pretty low. There are some intellegent posters who provide great insight, but for every one of them there are hundreds of people who just call each other names and start fights. Most of the threads get very repetitive.

[ozyman]

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Obviously Penn is a bit of a different story in that he's doing this because he wants to, not because he needs to, so its just a question of what his motivation is from this point.

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Can you elaborate on this, why is his motivation different? Is he independently wealthy? I saw somewhere else that someone referred to him "living like a king in Hilo".

[Tuds75]

I was out of town so I just watched the fight now. I hadn't heard anything from the two fighters after the fight (expect the post fight interview with Rogan which is basically just the fighter walking "us" through certain points in the fight). So I didn't know anything of Penn's "injury" until I read some posts on 2+2.

But watching that fight I seemed like Penn was waiting for Hughes to slip up and then capitalize. Then in the third round Penn looked totally different. The way Penn moves is NOT FROM GASSING. Think about it:

- He came in much better shape for this fight then the GSP fight and he only gassed in the final 2-3 minutes of that fight.
- If he did gas, it had just come out between round break. If anything. He has actually gassed he would have come out strong for the first minute or two and then hit the wall, but Penn came out of his corner slow. Sure sign of injury, not gas.
- Yes it can be hard to hard on the body trying to get a submission, but look at Penn's sub attempts at the end of round 3, he had his legs locked around Hughes. Penn uses locking techniques instead of just squeezing with his legs, so he really didn't expend a whole lot of energy to gas to the level he looked in the beginning of round 3.
- Penn is hunched over at the start of round 3. In the first two rounds, when fighting standing up he is stands very erect, in round 3 his shoulders are starting roll/slouch. Yes this could also be a sign of fatigue, but not in the first 30 seconds of round 3.

It just seems like the "BJ just fatigued like always" arguement would not be the reason he lost. I honestly believe Penn was injuried and if not injuried it was his fight to lose.

I really hope the UFC caters to BJ Penn. He is a really exciting fighter and his skills are so unique, you just can't find that anywhere in MMA. I hope the UFC caters to BJ Penn and can find the best way to use him in the UFC. I mean he is 1-1 against Hughes a rubber match would makes sense. I mean the UFC is doing Tito/Shamrock III and Tito destroyed Ken twice (that fight is another story, please don't run on that topic...YET). I would make sense to see this fight again. Penn needs to beat someone like Diego or Karo so the UFC can say he "earned" another shot, but in truth his performance tonight should have earned him another shot at Hughes. If I was Hughes I would stay FAR away from another Penn fight. I just really hope BJ Penn is not a forgotten man in the UFC or MMA.

One last thing, did anyone notice Dana White and the Frietatas(sp) brothers just coozing over Matt after the fight? Dana telling him how great he is and just following Matt around like a puppy in the ring and the Frietatas Bros shaking Matt's hand and slapping him on the back after the win. It was obvious they wanted Hughes to win so they could get GSP/Hughes because if Penn would have won they would have such a clusterf*ck at 170 with Diego almost being promised a shot and GSP getting a shot and Hughes would have to have a rematch clause if he would have lost. If Penn would have won, Dana would have been so stressed his hair would have started to fallout...his EYEBROW hair.

Either Way GREAT Fight, but it always seems GSP,Hughes, and Penn put on good fights

Tuds

[Performify]

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Can you elaborate on this, why is his motivation different? Is he independently wealthy? I saw somewhere else that someone referred to him "living like a king in Hilo".

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Penn is indeed independently wealthy. He comes from an exceedingly wealthy family in Hawaii, his family (his father, basically) owns what is probably the top development firm on the islands.

He's basically done nothing his entire life but MMA. Some might argue it gives him more motivation, that this is what he's chosen to do with his life, this is his passion, he can pursue it without abandon and without regard for the need to support himself. But you never really know.

[SunOfBeach]

I haven't chimed in on these UFC threads in 2-3 months (wife having 1st baby = BIG time commitment), but I had to open my mouth on this one. Some thoughts on this post, and this bet in general:

1. Anyone who watched that fight and thinks that Hughes was a good bet at the line available most of the week (around -200), nevermind at the line available just pre-fight (-250), has absolutely got to stop betting on these things right now... because they will lose their whole bankroll in no time. Obviously, playing Monday morning QB, Penn + 251 just before fight time was pretty close to the pick of the century.... HUGE +EV.

2. Putting Diego Sanchez in the same conversation as the other 3 is painful to me.... apples and oranges...

3. I abhor the idea of BJ going down to 155... I love the idea of BJ getting his cardio up and beating Hughes/GSP in succession to take the belt at 170. I don't think either will happen, though.

[loveminuszero]

was 3/4 on the night

had swick, evans and hughes.
crazy bad beat on pulver vs lauzon. oh well.