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| View Poll Results: who likes | |||
| check/call |
   
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1 | 8.33% |
| bet/call |
  
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5 | 41.67% |
| bet/3b |
  
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5 | 41.67% |
| check/raise |
  
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1 | 8.33% |
| bet/fold (NITS) |
  
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0 | 0% |
| Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#1231
10-02-2007, 10:37 PM
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Re: Folded KK preflop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Turn check-minraise is pretty ugly, but I'd call. I have a feeling he's going to bet small enough that I'd call the river too, but if he made a real bet on a river that didn't help I'd fold. [/ QUOTE ] No wai. His stats make this a fold, you're beaten solidly like 85% here and the rest of the time he has a ton of outs. [/ QUOTE ] Ya but you only need to be good like 80% of the time folding the turn is a huge mistake here IMO [/ QUOTE ] Huh? Do you mean 20% of the time? You're going to have to call a bet on the river as well, so the immediate pot odds aren't all you have to worry about. 
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#1232
10-02-2007, 10:47 PM
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Re: $25NL AA vs 4bet
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I had not been at this table long I had no read. How was my line? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums) MP3 ($3.55) CO ($52.25) Button ($25.40) SB ($10.60) BB ($24.50) Hero ($36.65) UTG+1 ($22.70) MP1 ($8.75) MP2 ($12.50) Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.35. <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB calls $1. Flop: ($2.95) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $23.25</font>, Hero calls $8.25. Turn: ($49.45) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> River: ($49.45) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Final Pot: $49.45 [/ QUOTE ] You need to flat call the flop raise. If you end up with your stack in the middle on this flop you will either be even money to one of about a billion hands (KQcc, JTo, 87s, etc) or completely crushed by a straight, set or two pair. In a situation like this, with a very dangerous drawish board on the flop, you need to keep the pot small and take a card off to see if you get something safe. This clarifies your equity in the pot. I would rather fold than reraise, and versus an aggressive player I would tend to check this flop behind because I know that if I get checkraised I will be in a bad spot.
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#1233
10-02-2007, 10:54 PM
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Re: $25NL TPTK vs shove w/ good odds to call
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I think I just sat down at table and was a few hands into the start of my session, so again no reads. How is my line? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums) SB ($2.90) BB ($24.75) UTG ($4.85) MP1 ($55.35) MP2 ($38.25) CO ($25.55) Hero ($24.75) Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $2. Flop: ($6.35) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, MP1 calls $3. Turn: ($12.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $11.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $23.5</font>, Hero calls $7 (All-In). River: ($49.85) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font> Final Pot: $49.85 [/ QUOTE ] I'd bet more on the flop just so I can get him allin in two bets. Otherwise fine, there's no way you can get away from the hand - if he flopped a set or has aces that's too bad.
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#1234
10-02-2007, 10:57 PM
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Re: $25NL TPTK vs shove w/ good odds to call
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Villain is 46/7/1 but only 30 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com Button ($26.85) Hero ($25) BB ($18.70) UTG ($25.25) MP ($23.95) CO ($22.55) Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, BB calls $0.75. Flop: ($2) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $3</font>, Hero calls $1.50. Turn: ($8) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $15</font> Is this just spew? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. I'd just fold to the flop raise vs this guy, you're getting odds to draw to your outs but you have no idea whether they're any good. Your line might work but requires you to invest too much in the pot. btw you also raised far too much on the turn, $10 or $12 would be enough to give him the message. Edit: Call flop is probably a bit better but it's marginal and in general I dislike drawing to hands when they could easily not be good.
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#1235
10-02-2007, 11:10 PM
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Re: $25NL TPTK vs shove w/ good odds to call
[ QUOTE ] btw you also raised far too much on the turn, $10 or $12 would be enough to give him the message. [/ QUOTE ] He only had about $12 behind so i just put him all in.
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#1237
10-03-2007, 12:10 AM
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Re: $25NL TPTK vs shove w/ good odds to call
DrJ,
With AA just call the flop. I would fold a ton of turns. AK hand bet more on flop turn is fine Jbrochu, Call turn you are getting 48493894389:1. and you really aren't repping anything.
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#1238
10-03-2007, 01:05 AM
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Re: Folded KK preflop
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[ QUOTE ] Turn check-minraise is pretty ugly, but I'd call. I have a feeling he's going to bet small enough that I'd call the river too, but if he made a real bet on a river that didn't help I'd fold. [/ QUOTE ] No wai. His stats make this a fold, you're beaten solidly like 85% here and the rest of the time he has a ton of outs. Edit: Look at it from his point of view, he's a guy with AF 1 (I know it's a small sample, but the VPIP vs PFR numbers bear out that he is not very aggressive). It's very rare that a guy like that will decide to run a check minraise with only one pair aces or a draw into the maw of a preflop raiser who has bet twice on the board AKJx, which from where he's sitting is a preflop raiser's wet dream. Far and away his most likely hands are AJ and QT. If Scuba called down I'm betting he got shown one of those. [/ QUOTE ] AJ and QT make sense, but if you just add in some of the AQ, AT, some other bluff/semi-bluff hands he could have you have reasonable equity. He's not always betting the river and if he does have QT you have 9% equity with good (not good enough by themselves) implied odds. You could be right with his stats, but check-minraises seem to be all over the place as far as what they mean. Seems like you have to have at least 10% chance of looking at the HH with the results and just being baffled as to why someone makes any particular play. But...I dunno and would like to see more opinions on it.
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#1239
10-03-2007, 01:12 AM
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Re: $25NL TPTK vs shove w/ good odds to call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Villain is 46/7/1 but only 30 ... Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Is this just spew? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. A 46/7/1 isn't likely to give you much fold equity. Someone like that apparently doesn't like folding, so you're likely to get paid off if you hit your straight - so put your money in when you're ahead, rather than when you're behind. Just calling the turn is fine. [/ QUOTE ] With just 30 hands this is true, but one needs to keep an eye on the postflop play of players who are very loose preflop. Many of them are much more straightforward postflop and end up with very marginal hands that they are willing to put some money in with, but will fold to significant pressure. In general you should really pay a lot of attention to players who are very loose preflop as you are very likely to have them involved in any hands you play.
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#1240
10-03-2007, 03:11 AM
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Re: Folded KK preflop
[ QUOTE ]
You could be right with his stats, but check-minraises seem to be all over the place as far as what they mean. Seems like you have to have at least 10% chance of looking at the HH with the results and just being baffled as to why someone makes any particular play. [/ QUOTE ] The problem is that for me, AQ/AT/etc are PART OF that 10%. Check-minraising with those hands would both be out of character and not make any sense vs a raiser who has bet twice. A small semibluff raise would also not make a lot of sense. I'm not saying these things are impossible, but I give them a lot less weight than hands like QT and AJ which make a huge amount of sense. btw you still lose to AQ and AT if he bets the river with them, which makes just as much sense as checkraising the turn with them.
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