STTF SNG->cash thread - Page 123

ChrisV · #**1221** 10-02-2007, 08:43 PM

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Villain in this hand was 11/11/3.5 over 150 hands (all at said table).

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($25)
UTG ($29.60)
MP ($60.90)
CO ($25)
Hero ($40.35)
SB ($9.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $0.85, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, UTG raises to $10.2, Scuba Chuck has requested TIME ...and folds.

Final Pot: $6.35

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UTG isn't deep enough for this kind of monkeying around, just get it in.

ChrisV · #**1222** 10-02-2007, 08:44 PM

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Villain was like 25/11/1 over about 90 hands.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($47.05)
UTG ($25)
MP ($27.80)
Hero ($34.45)
SB ($9.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.5, BB calls $1.50.

Turn: ($5.10) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB raises to $8, Hero...

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Really trivial fold.

ChrisV · #**1223** 10-02-2007, 08:46 PM

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Turn check-minraise is pretty ugly, but I'd call. I have a feeling he's going to bet small enough that I'd call the river too, but if he made a real bet on a river that didn't help I'd fold.

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No wai. His stats make this a fold, you're beaten solidly like 85% here and the rest of the time he has a ton of outs.

Edit: Look at it from his point of view, he's a guy with AF 1 (I know it's a small sample, but the VPIP vs PFR numbers bear out that he is not very aggressive). It's very rare that a guy like that will decide to run a check minraise with only one pair aces or a draw into the maw of a preflop raiser who has bet twice on the board AKJx, which from where he's sitting is a preflop raiser's wet dream. Far and away his most likely hands are AJ and QT. If Scuba called down I'm betting he got shown one of those.

DevinLake · #**1224** 10-02-2007, 08:48 PM

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I thought it was just a number like how much money they put in say like 50 bucks or something. So if they played like 30 hands and put in like 30 bucks they are loose? How come the thread is so wide?

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VPIP is a percentage (obviously out of 100)

Your tracking program will look at the x many hands that the player has played. It then counts the number of times that player has voluntarily put money into the pot - this is simply a question of frequency, not of how much.

It then takes the number of times a player has put money into the pot, and divides that by the number of hands played.

Eg, if a player has played 100 hands, and they have put money into the pot 25 times: 25/100 = 25%

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How many hands the opponent has to play before I can start using them to tell if they are loose or not?
Josem you are awesome =0.

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I have mine filtered for 20 hands. But, that's still not really usefull. You still need to be using observation combined with the stats to know if they are loose or not.

Josem · #**1225** 10-02-2007, 08:59 PM

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How many hands the opponent has to play before I can start using them to tell if they are loose or not?

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It depends.

Obviously, the more hands the better and more accurate.

That said, you simply won't get enough hands on the people who are really, really loose - 'cause they'll bust too quickly.

So, if you have 10 hands on someone, and they have a VPIP of 90%, they've played 9 out of the 10 hands you've seen. That means that they're almost certainly very loose. The chances of someone getting a top 25% hand 9 or more times out of 10 is approximately .25^9 = 0.0004%. It may happen in your lifetime, but not often.

Building on this, there's a philosophical/scientific "principle" (I'm not an expert on this stuff, so my terminology might be inaccurate, but I'm confident that the basic point is sound) that unless you have some information to the contrary, you're essentially observing from a random point of view.

So, in other words, if you sit down and see someone play 10 hands, that is an essentially random sample (for our purposes). The vast majority of the time, those 10 hands are just as likely to be broadly reflective of the player's play as any other 10 hands.

Of course 10 hands is a very small sample for absolute judgements. If you were launching nuclear weapons on the basis of the information, and lives were at stake, obviously it would be very unreliable. But for playing low stakes poker, it's a reasonable guide[/i] even after a few hands.

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Josem you are awesome =0.

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True.

Eagles · #**1226** 10-02-2007, 09:24 PM

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Turn check-minraise is pretty ugly, but I'd call. I have a feeling he's going to bet small enough that I'd call the river too, but if he made a real bet on a river that didn't help I'd fold.

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No wai. His stats make this a fold, you're beaten solidly like 85% here and the rest of the time he has a ton of outs.

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Ya but you only need to be good like 80% of the time folding the turn is a huge mistake here IMO

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #**1227** 10-02-2007, 10:17 PM

I had not been at this table long I had no read. How was my line?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP3 ($3.55)
CO ($52.25)
Button ($25.40)
SB ($10.60)
BB ($24.50)
Hero ($36.65)
UTG+1 ($22.70)
MP1 ($8.75)
MP2 ($12.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.35.
Hero raises to $1.25, 7 folds, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($2.95) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3, BB raises to $6, Hero raises to $15, BB raises to $23.25, Hero calls $8.25.

Turn: ($49.45) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: ($49.45) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $49.45

Dr_Jeckyl_00 · #**1228** 10-02-2007, 10:23 PM

I think I just sat down at table and was a few hands into the start of my session, so again no reads. How is my line?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($2.90)
BB ($24.75)
UTG ($4.85)
MP1 ($55.35)
MP2 ($38.25)
CO ($25.55)
Hero ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, MP1 calls $2.

Flop: ($6.35) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $3, MP1 calls $3.

Turn: ($12.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $11.75, MP1 raises to $23.5, Hero calls $7 (All-In).

River: ($49.85) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $49.85

Jbrochu · #**1229** 10-02-2007, 10:27 PM

Villain is 46/7/1 but only 30

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Button ($26.85)
Hero ($25)
BB ($18.70)
UTG ($25.25)
MP ($23.95)
CO ($22.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, BB raises to $3, Hero calls $1.50.

Turn: ($8) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2, Hero raises to $15

Is this just spew?

Josem · #**1230** 10-02-2007, 10:37 PM

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Villain is 46/7/1 but only 30
...

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Is this just spew?

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Yes. A 46/7/1 isn't likely to give you much fold equity. Someone like that apparently doesn't like folding, so you're likely to get paid off if you hit your straight - so put your money in when you're ahead, rather than when you're behind.

Just calling the turn is fine.

View Poll Results: who likes
check/call	1	8.33%
bet/call	5	41.67%
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check/raise	1	8.33%
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