possible reason arod signed early?

[Zutroy]

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Why wouldn't he? Boras gets a cut. Wow, seriously.

Zutroy, Charlie isn't even bothering to directly respond to your point because he knows how asinine it is.

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Yeah, I don't know. I though this was pretty straightforward stuff.

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lol

Zutroy doesn't believe that the Yankees would have offered 10 years and 275 or even anything above that unless he opts out and is a free agent.

Yet when Alex is a free agent...virtually no one is making the kind of offers the Yankees are able to make. Alex has to come back to the Yankees and do negotiations on their terms..and they throw up 10 years 275 as essentially the offer they are fine with giving.

What exactly did opting out do to drive up the price?
Was it the fact that the Yankees saw that no one else was going to pay more than 8 years 225? Was it the fact that Boras was removed from negotiations?

Tell me what exactly enabled Arod to get a better deal than what he could have gotten if he had bothered to negotiate pre-opt out.

Posada got a amazing deal that in most people's eyes was to much for that old of a catcher, same with Rivera...why did they get these huge deals? Cuz the [censored] Yankees didn't want them to hit the open market. Could they have gotten a better deal by becoming free agents..possibly...but they could have also gotten a worse.

If Boras negotiates non stop with the Yankees there is no way he doesn't get 10 years 275 min. The Yankees were hapy to give that to Arod last week...they would be happy with that deal pre-opt out.He most likely gets more. Why?
Because the Yankees have said we're not negotiating if u opt out so basically they said to everyone "we have to sign u in these next 10 days or we lose you for good".

If they are on the 9th day with one left to go and the Yankees offer the same offer they gave Arod last week when he has NO leverage(275/10)...and Boras comes back with 10 years but 30 million per year and revenue.You think the Yankees are going to be "OMG an extra 30 million? No way thats craazy...we'll sign Mike Lowell to 4 years instead."

The Yankees never made an official offer. Boras essentially said [censored] you and [censored] your offers we're opting out cuz we can get the best deal on the open market. He didn't even try t see if he could get a huge deal pre-opt out.

Thats the amazing thing...Boras didn't try to milk the Yankees and see how high they would go before the opt out date. Negotiating wise that is where he screwed up...not to mention making his client look like a douche.

Arod still got a great deal but Boras mishandled the whole thing. He did not do a great job because Arod got a huge contract from the Yankees...Arod would have gotten a huge contract from the Yankees regardless.

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How do you know that the Yankees' starting offer was 10yr/275mill before he opted out? Link? I haven't read anything to that effect and the Yankees' would have been bat-[censored] insane to offer such a contract if the market was as cold as you seem to believe. Their starting offer was likely something much lower or for not nearly as many years, causing Boras and A-Rod to opt out. Once he opted out, Boras received the 8/225 offer. The Yankees responded with this new one. Correct me if any part of this is not factually correct because I'm having a hard time finding a solid timeline on the internets. Btw, which deal is better for A-Rod and which is better for the Yankees in your opinion, 5/150 or 10/275?

Also, about the Posada/Rivera deals. Yes the Yankees overpay for certain players but neither of those deals is nearly as large as this one. It's not even close. Just because they are willing to overspend on smaller deals doesn't mean they are willing to do so on the much larger ones. A terrible analogy would be overpaying for groceries and booze and the like but then negotiating for much larger items, like a car or a house.

Edited to add a quick reminder: A-ROD IS THRITY-TWO YEARS OLD AND HE JUST SINGED THE LONGEST AND LARGEST CONTRACT IN MLB HISTORY. HOW DID BORAS FAIL???? DO YOU REALLY THINK THE YANKEES STARTED AT OR WERE WILLING TO GO TO TEN YEARS BEFORE HE OPTED OUT?

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He didn't fail. but he did a poor job as an agent at trying to get his client the best deal humanly possible while still maintaining a positive image for his client


and yes the Yankees would have gone to 10 years pre-opt out.
Their 1st offer was 8 years.
Your honestly telling me that if arod says I walk unless u go to 10 the Yanks are going to say...ok we'll go with W. Betemit.

Arod would possibly be chasing the HR record in those last two years( that would be huge amount sof $$ for the Yankees that would easily off set overpaying for an old player) if he isn't chasing that record...THEY'RE THE [censored] YANKEES. The can afford to over pay at the end of the contract in order to keep a player.

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Overpaying a few million here and there is one thing, like the Posada/Rivera deals. Paying 27-30million to a 40yr old hitter who has declined severally (For the record, I don't think this will happen but it is a definite possibility) is an entirely different kettle of fish. The Yankees would have liked to have avoided that, I imagine, if possible but Boras wouldn't let them. He forced them into giving his client a ridiculous deal both in terms of money and length. Please, go look at the other largest contracts in MLB history. None of them are anywhere close to this. Do you truly believe the Yankees could have or would have gone much higher than this just because they felt like it? And please keep in mind, A-Rod is old.

[vhawk01]

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I have no idea why the Yankees agreed to offer Arod 10/275 given the environment at the time. There was no reason to because no one else was going to get close to it. They knew this last week. But they didn't know this a month ago when Arod had 10 days left before he could opt out.




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This part right here is pretty damning to your entire argument.

[Vyse]

Yeah, not worth wasting any more time. Now I'll just point and laugh.

Carry on.

[Zutroy]

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wasnt the 8yr 225 an extension to his 2 years remaining @ 25per?

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No, I think they offered him a 5yr/150mill extension to the 3/81 he already had. This would have been about 8/231, altogether (Link).

Charile,
I see your point after doing a bit of digging but I still disagree. A-Rod got two more years added to an already monstrous offer. I don't think he could have gotten more if he just asked for it. They didn't offer him 10yrs, they offered him 8. If he had continued negotiating, the best possible outcome would be a deal like the one they just offered him. The Posada/Rivera deals aren't nearly as large or potentially crippling as A-Rod's. The Yankees do indeed have money to spend but why do you believe they would be so careless with it? I think we also disagree on our opinions of Cashman: I think he is good at his job while you think he is a retard.

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ajbvagisfbiksdnfjbsdnfjklbsndfjnbsdkjpfbnskjxnfbks jadnfkjbsdnpkfjbnzdxkjb snjkcn sdkjbn sdjkfn bkjzxn kbjszcbskdj

JESUS CHRIST lol

Zutroy not trying to be a dick but this is basic negotiating.
You don't give you best offer when you make your initial offer. You give a lowball offer and then the other party makes a counter offer and then you make a 2nd offer and then the other party makes a counter offer. repeat and rinse repreat and rinse.

This is exactly what happened with Posada and Rivera. Same thing would have happened with Arod pre-opt out. The Yankees do this with every FA. They don't make their 1st offer the best offer they are willing to offer.

This is why people hire a agent like Boras...to force a team to keep upping an offer to the highest they are willing to go.

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lol, I know you're not and neither am I, it's just getting a little frustrating. I just don't see how you are going form 8/231 to 10/300 so easily and confidently. Why do you think the Yankees would be so willing to give up that much more money? Just because a few smaller contracts were negotiated in that manner? Your argument basically boils down to the Yankees are very stupid with large sums of money. Again, overspending here and there on small to medium contracts is not the same as overspending on the largest contract ever. Any deal that is larger than the one offered by the Yankees, the 10/275 + incentives, is very unrealistic in my opinion.

[Franchise 60]

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Why wouldn't he? Boras gets a cut. Wow, seriously.

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So its good for Boras' image/reputation that the Yankees grossly overpaid (as many are saying in this thread) without Boras being involved in the negotiations? Its good for him picking up clients that his biggest client felt he had to go around him to get a deal done?

Yea Boras gets his money, but he still looks bad in this. There is no way that Boras would come up with the idea to make it look like A-Rod got this huge contract without him being involved in the negotiations. If A-Rod can get overpaid without Boras than what is the point of having Boras? That isn't the image an agent wants to give off.

[Vyse]

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Your argument basically boils down to the Yankees are very stupid with large sums of money.

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lmao, yep

[Thremp]

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Your argument basically boils down to the Yankees are very stupid with large sums of money.

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lmao, yep

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HYACHAHCHACHA They're not stupid. Think of other ways to buy yourself to 95 Pwins.

[CharlieDontSurf]

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wasnt the 8yr 225 an extension to his 2 years remaining @ 25per?

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No, I think they offered him a 5yr/150mill extension to the 3/81 he already had. This would have been about 8/231, altogether (Link).

Charile,
I see your point after doing a bit of digging but I still disagree. A-Rod got two more years added to an already monstrous offer. I don't think he could have gotten more if he just asked for it. They didn't offer him 10yrs, they offered him 8. If he had continued negotiating, the best possible outcome would be a deal like the one they just offered him. The Posada/Rivera deals aren't nearly as large or potentially crippling as A-Rod's. The Yankees do indeed have money to spend but why do you believe they would be so careless with it? I think we also disagree on our opinions of Cashman: I think he is good at his job while you think he is a retard.

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ajbvagisfbiksdnfjbsdnfjklbsndfjnbsdkjpfbnskjxnfbks jadnfkjbsdnpkfjbnzdxkjb snjkcn sdkjbn sdjkfn bkjzxn kbjszcbskdj

JESUS CHRIST lol

Zutroy not trying to be a dick but this is basic negotiating.
You don't give you best offer when you make your initial offer. You give a lowball offer and then the other party makes a counter offer and then you make a 2nd offer and then the other party makes a counter offer. repeat and rinse repreat and rinse.

This is exactly what happened with Posada and Rivera. Same thing would have happened with Arod pre-opt out. The Yankees do this with every FA. They don't make their 1st offer the best offer they are willing to offer.

This is why people hire a agent like Boras...to force a team to keep upping an offer to the highest they are willing to go.

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lol, I know you're not and neither am I, it's just getting a little frustrating. I just don't see how you are going form 8/231 to 10/300 so easily and confidently. Why do you think the Yankees would be so willing to give up that much more money? Just because a few smaller contracts were negotiated in that manner? Your argument basically boils down to the Yankees are very stupid with large sums of money. Again, overspending here and there on small to medium contracts is not the same as overspending on the largest contract ever. Any deal that is larger than the one offered by the Yankees, the 10/275 + incentives, is very unrealistic in my opinion.

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I'm not saying its a given they go from 8 for 240 to 10 for 300 but it certainly possible.

10 for 275 is a given. most the NYY beat writers sources etc were saying that the Yankees were looking to sign Arod and spend around 280 pre opt out. thats 40 million dollars more than the inital starting offer to Boras

the Yankees gave 10 years 275 with out the extra 21m

If the Yankees give just the same deal pre-opt out it only costs them 254 million. So if they are willing to go 10 years 275 then u can assume that they might be willing to go a bit higher with the extra 21 milion thrown in.

This whole argument is that Boras chose to not even attempt to see how high he could get the Yankees to go pre-opt out.

Thats not being a good agent. Maybe he could have gotten a better offer and maybe not...but he DIDNT EVEN TRY.

It worked out ok in the end because either Boras was smart and set up the whole Arod go thru back channels or he got lucky because Arod did that on his own. But Arod's image took a major hit, and it could have been much worse if the Yankees had chosen to play hardball with Arod or Hank Steiny did something stupid(which u cant put past him) and stuck to his guns with the no negotiating.

[CharlieDontSurf]

but anyways..this has been fun but not of us are going to agree on anything so whatever. end of argument

[Zutroy]

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wasnt the 8yr 225 an extension to his 2 years remaining @ 25per?

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No, I think they offered him a 5yr/150mill extension to the 3/81 he already had. This would have been about 8/231, altogether (Link).

Charile,
I see your point after doing a bit of digging but I still disagree. A-Rod got two more years added to an already monstrous offer. I don't think he could have gotten more if he just asked for it. They didn't offer him 10yrs, they offered him 8. If he had continued negotiating, the best possible outcome would be a deal like the one they just offered him. The Posada/Rivera deals aren't nearly as large or potentially crippling as A-Rod's. The Yankees do indeed have money to spend but why do you believe they would be so careless with it? I think we also disagree on our opinions of Cashman: I think he is good at his job while you think he is a retard.

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ajbvagisfbiksdnfjbsdnfjklbsndfjnbsdkjpfbnskjxnfbks jadnfkjbsdnpkfjbnzdxkjb snjkcn sdkjbn sdjkfn bkjzxn kbjszcbskdj

JESUS CHRIST lol

Zutroy not trying to be a dick but this is basic negotiating.
You don't give you best offer when you make your initial offer. You give a lowball offer and then the other party makes a counter offer and then you make a 2nd offer and then the other party makes a counter offer. repeat and rinse repreat and rinse.

This is exactly what happened with Posada and Rivera. Same thing would have happened with Arod pre-opt out. The Yankees do this with every FA. They don't make their 1st offer the best offer they are willing to offer.

This is why people hire a agent like Boras...to force a team to keep upping an offer to the highest they are willing to go.

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lol, I know you're not and neither am I, it's just getting a little frustrating. I just don't see how you are going form 8/231 to 10/300 so easily and confidently. Why do you think the Yankees would be so willing to give up that much more money? Just because a few smaller contracts were negotiated in that manner? Your argument basically boils down to the Yankees are very stupid with large sums of money. Again, overspending here and there on small to medium contracts is not the same as overspending on the largest contract ever. Any deal that is larger than the one offered by the Yankees, the 10/275 + incentives, is very unrealistic in my opinion.

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I'm not saying its a given they go from 8 for 240 to 10 for 300 but it certainly possible.

10 for 275 is a given. most the NYY beat writers sources etc were saying that the Yankees were looking to sign Arod and spend around 280 pre opt out. thats 40 million dollars more than the inital starting offer to Boras

the Yankees gave 10 years 275 with out the extra 21m

If the Yankees give just the same deal pre-opt out it only costs them 254 million. So if they are willing to go 10 years 275 then u can assume that they might be willing to go a bit higher with the extra 21 milion thrown in.

This whole argument is that Boras chose to not even attempt to see how high he could get the Yankees to go pre-opt out.

Thats not being a good agent. Maybe he could have gotten a better offer and maybe not...but he DIDNT EVEN TRY.

It worked out ok in the end because either Boras was smart and set up the whole Arod go thru back channels or he got lucky because Arod did that on his own. But Arod's image took a major hit, and it could have been much worse if the Yankees had chosen to play hardball with Arod or Hank Steiny did something stupid(which u cant put past him) and stuck to his guns with the no negotiating.

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Ok, I think I agree with large chunks of this, which is progress [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]. I agree that the Yankees could possibly have increased their initial offer to around 270-280mill but I think that 280 is the absolute upper limit of what they were willing to offer and even then I don't think it was a given. Also, I'm not sure they offered the HR incentives the first time around. In the end I don't think Boras cost his client anything and I think he did a great job in the negotiations.

Anyway, you're right. I think this argument has run it's course. You're a Cards fan, right? Congrats on the Bengal stomping.