Why Can't People Forgive? - Page 12

KotOD · #**111** 05-07-2007, 05:14 PM

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so I view this inconvenience of possible ostracization justifiable.

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guids, i think you found the fundamental difference between the two sides in this discussion. some people view that as justifiable, some don't.

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http://www.reason.com/news/show/120060.html

that article alone is enough to give any sane individual reason to be against a license plate law.

guids · #**112** 05-07-2007, 05:17 PM

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so I view this inconvenience of possible ostracization justifiable.

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guids, i think you found the fundamental difference between the two sides in this discussion. some people view that as justifiable, some don't.

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http://www.reason.com/news/show/120060.html

that article alone is enough to give any sane individual reason to be against a license plate law.

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Why, because the legal system worked in this case? or because of the fact that you aren't addressing the real problem when you argue against the plates? If you are going to use this as your basis for things, than we shouldnt even have jails.

mosdef · #**113** 05-07-2007, 05:19 PM

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So your solution is just to execute them all? Its really hard to make out your stance with all of these rhetorical questions.

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If you think that they will never be safe enough to let them back into public then there is no justification for letting them out of jail.

My personal stance is that we have to either choose to live with the risk of repeat crimes by a subset of the group or decide that the risk is big enough that it should be a capital crime or life sentence crime. My personal stance is that green license plates are retarded no matter how you slice it.

doubLe a tom · #**114** 05-07-2007, 05:27 PM

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So your solution is just to execute them all? Its really hard to make out your stance with all of these rhetorical questions.

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If you think that they will never be safe enough to let them back into public then there is no justification for letting them out of jail.

My personal stance is that we have to either choose to live with the risk of repeat crimes by a subset of the group or decide that the risk is big enough that it should be a capital crime or life sentence crime. My personal stance is that green license plates are retarded no matter how you slice it.

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Well, since its not a capital crime at the moment and these people are in fact being let out of jail, I dont see a problem with them having these license plates or other things that identify them as a sex offender. Like I said before, when you rape someone or molest a child, I believe you are giving up your right to anonymity right there on the spot. These people know whats at stake when they commit the crime. So, instead of arguing agaisnt these green license plates, it sounds like you should be arguing for life sentences for these offenders or something. Until that happens, green license plates cant hurt.

KotOD · #**115** 05-07-2007, 05:30 PM

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so I view this inconvenience of possible ostracization justifiable.

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guids, i think you found the fundamental difference between the two sides in this discussion. some people view that as justifiable, some don't.

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http://www.reason.com/news/show/120060.html

that article alone is enough to give any sane individual reason to be against a license plate law.

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Why, because the legal system worked in this case? or because of the fact that you aren't addressing the real problem when you argue against the plates? If you are going to use this as your basis for things, than we shouldnt even have jails.

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The legal system worked? Are you kidding? Did you even read the article?

Referring to the old mentality, Watkins added, "if you sent someone to jail who was possibly innocent, it was a badge of honor."

Convicting innocent people, coupled with the fact that "sexual criminals" also includes 17 year olds getting knob jobs from 15 year olds, is plenty of evidence to NOT give green plates out.

guids · #**116** 05-07-2007, 05:32 PM

In teh nifong case, the justice system did just fine. Also, back your logic up, if your stance is that some sex offenders are unjustly accused of a crime, then in all reality we shouldnt have jails correct?

doubLe a tom · #**117** 05-07-2007, 05:39 PM

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In teh nifong case, the justice system did just fine.

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I wouldnt call it just fine, although justice was eventually served.

guids · #**118** 05-07-2007, 05:42 PM

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In teh nifong case, the justice system did just fine.

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I wouldnt call it just fine, although justice was eventually served.

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I think it did as fine as a job as it could with a moran, publicity seekign attorney, and a media willing to convict before there can even be a trial. In that case, the media did way more damage, and caused more problems than even nifong did (as if there was no media involvment, there would be no reason for him to be a publicity hound). Of course there will be no consquences for anyone for badmouthing the kids (Al sharpton), becuase the media want call for one.

doubLe a tom · #**119** 05-07-2007, 05:48 PM

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In teh nifong case, the justice system did just fine.

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I wouldnt call it just fine, although justice was eventually served.

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I think it did as fine as a job as it could with a moran, publicity seekign attorney, and a media willing to convict before there can even be a trial. In that case, the media did way more damage, and caused more problems than even nifong did (as if there was no media involvment, there would be no reason for him to be a publicity hound). Of course there will be no consquences for anyone for badmouthing the kids (Al sharpton), becuase the media want call for one.

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The problem is that these things are unfortunately a part of, or effect in some way, the justice system.

Blarg · #**120** 05-07-2007, 06:08 PM

The idea of "paying for your crime" has some holes in it. You can't really undo anything. Especially when it comes to something like rape or murder -- how do you unrape or murder someone? You can never really pay your debt to society. Going to jail doesn't erase what you did, and you had to be paid for while you were there on top of that. So we're left with a conceit that is sort of an optimistic palliative at best.

There are also some crimes that don't just say someone made a mistake. You don't just accidentally rape an 8 year old, or have it naturally evolve out of your ordinary routine before you've even noticed. It takes a different type of person to do certain crimes than others. That type of person can be an ongoing danger to the community precisely because his crime evolves out of who he is, not what he does. Anyone can change what he does or find appropriate substitutes for it. A man who rapes adults can nevertheless decide to express his sexuality without raping anyone anymore. But changing who you are on such a deep, basic level as your adult sexual orientation can't be changed so easily. The child molester has no alternate, safe, legal sexual release as an alternative to his crime.

This means we have to trust someone to never express their sexuality and have a sexual outlet again. It seems a very fair bet that this is asking too much and will be impossible for the molester to achieve. From what I've read, child molesters are generally believed incorrigible. So responsible justice here may well be keeping the molester far away from children for the rest of his life.

I wouldn't see why a molester couldn't be a productive member of society. But to say that his child molesting is over just because he went to prison seems dangerously naive. Even if a molester never molests again, and nobody ever knows about it or punishes him, he will be a child molester for the rest of his life.