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#111
12-13-2006, 04:42 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There was an article a few days ago posted about someone who was trying to produce milk a cheaper way, and the big milk companies got laws passed to shut them down. [/ QUOTE ] AFAIK, the "renegade" wasn't a co-op. [/ QUOTE ] Not sure, he could have been just an independent businessperson as well. Either way, I'm just saying it's very hard to get into the market now that capitalists are so powerful and have government working for them. [ QUOTE ] I know what it is, but I'm not an expert on the LTV yet. I used to be an Austrian. Why do you prefer LTV to marginalism? What made you switch? [/ QUOTE ] I don't want to discuss that just yet. But I support the LTV more for utilitarian purposes than some solid economic theory. [ QUOTE ] Any other positive rights in mutualism we should know about or is simply restricted to land. And if so, why? "People need shelter" doesn't help me much. People need food and water too, so if we're going to be consistent, then grocery stores/supermarkets are coercing people and should be stopped. [/ QUOTE ] Well that depends if you have your own land, which you should. Then you can grow food and not even have to depend on stores if you don't want to. [ QUOTE ] You can't exploit people for rent if they haven't agreed to pay rent. It sounds like for mutualists, to have liberty, liberty must be restricted. [/ QUOTE ] Um, yeah but why else would someone buy these buildings? What would be the purpose? I'm against controlling substantial amounts of property, because I feel that infringes on the liberty of society. 
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#112
12-13-2006, 04:43 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] uh, if you had your own shelter you would only pay for it to be built, then you'd own it, and not have to pay rent at all. [/ QUOTE ] What if he didn't have enough money to buy it, but didn't still want to live with his parents or on his friend's couch? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? You would claim property, not buy it. Payment was for building new property. Otherwise, there may be places to live free while you save up money. I can't describe exactly what it would look like, which is why it's difficult. try going here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuali...omic_theory%29
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#113
12-13-2006, 04:47 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] uh, if you had your own shelter you would only pay for it to be built, then you'd own it, and not have to pay rent at all. [/ QUOTE ] What if he didn't have enough money to buy it, but didn't still want to live with his parents or on his friend's couch? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? You would claim property, not buy it. Payment was for building new property. Otherwise, there may be places to live free while you save up money. I can't describe exactly what it would look like, which is why it's difficult. try going here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuali...omic_theory%29 [/ QUOTE ] Why would anyone build new dwellings if they did not intend to live in them themselves then?
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#114
12-13-2006, 04:48 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] uh, if you had your own shelter you would only pay for it to be built, then you'd own it, and not have to pay rent at all. [/ QUOTE ] What if he didn't have enough money to buy it, but didn't still want to live with his parents or on his friend's couch? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? You would claim property, not buy it. Payment was for building new property. Otherwise, there may be places to live free while you save up money. I can't describe exactly what it would look like, which is why it's difficult. try going here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuali...omic_theory%29 [/ QUOTE ] Why would anyone build new dwellings if they did not intend to live in them themselves then? [/ QUOTE ] huh? other people would pay this person to build it, nothing wrong with that. some people might even build them for free but that's beside the point.
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#115
12-13-2006, 04:50 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] uh, if you had your own shelter you would only pay for it to be built, then you'd own it, and not have to pay rent at all. [/ QUOTE ] What if he didn't have enough money to buy it, but didn't still want to live with his parents or on his friend's couch? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? You would claim property, not buy it. Payment was for building new property. Otherwise, there may be places to live free while you save up money. I can't describe exactly what it would look like, which is why it's difficult. try going here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuali...omic_theory%29 [/ QUOTE ] Why would anyone build new dwellings if they did not intend to live in them themselves then? [/ QUOTE ] huh? other people would pay this person to build it, nothing wrong with that. some people might even build them for free but that's beside the point. [/ QUOTE ] So how would there be any property to "claim"?
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#116
12-13-2006, 04:53 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] uh, if you had your own shelter you would only pay for it to be built, then you'd own it, and not have to pay rent at all. [/ QUOTE ] What if he didn't have enough money to buy it, but didn't still want to live with his parents or on his friend's couch? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? You would claim property, not buy it. Payment was for building new property. Otherwise, there may be places to live free while you save up money. I can't describe exactly what it would look like, which is why it's difficult. [/ QUOTE ] Well if there are free places to stay, then the mutualist premise of capitalists having a monopoly on land and landlords coercing people is wrong. [ QUOTE ] try going here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuali...omic_theory%29 [/ QUOTE ] I have, but the information there isn't very helpful for some of my questions.
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#117
12-13-2006, 05:18 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
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It's all a matter of rights. You have a right to private property (which means shelter, land, the product of your labor) and also your body. Using drugs does not violate those rights, collecting more land that you need does. Do you see why? [/ QUOTE ] How does "collecting more land than I need" (and please, let me know how much I need and how you determine that) violate my "right to private property ... and also my body"?
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#118
12-13-2006, 05:20 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] uh, if you had your own shelter you would only pay for it to be built, then you'd own it, and not have to pay rent at all. [/ QUOTE ] What if he didn't have enough money to buy it, but didn't still want to live with his parents or on his friend's couch? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? You would claim property, not buy it. Payment was for building new property. Otherwise, there may be places to live free while you save up money. [/ QUOTE ] What if one doesn't have enough to pay for building on the free property that was claimed? Also, if I build a house myself (i.e. no construction company involved) can I legitimately rent out the space?
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#119
12-13-2006, 05:46 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] *** You are ignoring this user *** [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] What is it with leftists and wanting to ignore the truth? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#120
12-13-2006, 06:12 PM
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Re: So What the Heck is Mutualism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] *** You are ignoring this user *** [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] What is it with leftists and wanting to ignore the truth? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I think he had to go to class.
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