UCLA Taser Incident - Quoted Dialogue From Video

[DVaut1]

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This thread, along with other on this subject, is beyond frightening.

All I have to say is: God forbid I ever find myself with less than a handful of friends on Facebook. Who the [censored] knows what the authorities could legitimately do to me then.

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If you can't see the sarcasm in the "only 9 friends on facebook" comments, then I don't think I can help you much. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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I'm sure Dvaut realizes that each subsequent mention of the "9 friends on facebook" have been sarcastic. It's the original mention by DKnight that he's addressing. DKnight made the comment to illustrate what a "freak" the Iranian guy was, and by extension, that he "deserved" to get tased for being an outcast.

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Yeah, I was referring to the quote below, which dxknight cited. Apparently, it supported his position this kid was not a victim of the police's excessive use of force:

"First of all, this guy is a total loser (he has 9 friends on facebook)"

So, yeah...apparently, before we talk about whether or not the police were out of line, let's FIRST keep in mind this guy was a real friendless schmuck -- because, uh, clearly, that's the first thing we should be considering when we're questioning whether or not the police behaved irresponsibly.

Like I said, I wonder how many of you sick freaks would welcome some kind of authoritarian regime that abused, tortured, and discriminated against the unpopular and disfavored members of society. At least this kid at least had 9 friends on some social networking site. Goodness knows what kind of treatment you guys would support if some unfortunate soul only had 1 or 2 friends on MySpace or Facebook.

Perhaps I'm overstating my disgust for some of you a bit, but my demagoguery and emotionalism are likely wrought by finding out there's alot more sociopaths in the world then I previously thought.

Wait, no, no...nevermind. Apparently, it's the Iranian kid's antisocial behavior we should fear. We need to taser freaks like that ASAP; that'll learn 'em straighten up, fly right, and maybe appeal do a better job of appealing to our sensibilities. If this kid learned anything from his tasering, we should expect his Facebook friend list up to 20 or 30 soon, no doubt. Maybe when he stops whining and bitching -- I mean, how bad could it have hurt that little weenie, he's still alive, right? -- maybe then he'll be a little more popular, and he'll see the innate and prophetic wisdom of the authorities who tasered him.

[John Kilduff]

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Were the officers in any real danger? No. The kid was sitting on the ground. He hadn't thrown any punches, or threatened the cops in any way.

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thats [censored] to say that they werent in any danger. hes creating a scene for no reason and a crowd is forming that can cause harm to them if they choose to get violent. they acted as quickly as possible to defuse the situation before it escalated.

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The crowd posed a threat to the police officers? Any evidence of that?

There's a guy on the ground *handcuffed*, and bystander(s) asking the cops for their badge numbers. As far as I can tell the only ones who were making any threats in this situation were the *police*.

[John Kilduff]

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Interesting that you think the justification for tasing is the unrest _caused_ by the tasing.

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not the first tasing. All the tasings after that, yeah sure, thats what im arguing.

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So the cops create a potential riot by tasing, and the solution is... more tasing? Rocket science.

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and what would you suggest, oh wise one? wait, before you answer, find one of your 200 lb friends, and get 3 other friends, and try to carry him out a door, and down some stairs as fast as you can. Oh, heres the fun part, the 200lb'er gets to make it as difficult as possible. Once you give up, pull out your taser and say, stand the [censored] up or get tasered.

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Ah but minus the tasing there wouldn't be a near riot. Call for backup and drag his ass out. Wait until he's out of sight and beat him senseless while he's in handcuffs like a real cop.

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i like this idea.

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Glad to know where you're coming from, anyway.

In my opinion, any cops who beat senseless a helpless handcuffed person deserve to lose their wages for the next 20 years while making license plates.

[AngusThermopyle]

Ok.
Guy is asked to show his ID, like everybody else is asked. He refuses (he has his ID, but refuses to show it). He is asked several more times and told he will have to leave. He refuses to show his ID and refuses to leave.
The campus cops are called.
Only when the cops show up does he seem to begin to leave.

You are a campus police officer called to the incident.
You go over to talk to the young man (who you do not know is a student) and make the horrible mistake of grabbing his arm.
The guy starts screaming at the top of his lungs. He falls limp to the floor and continues to scream.

What do you do? What methods do you employ?
He continues to yell and refuses to get up. What is your play?

Seriously. I am interested in what the "the State is Evil" crowd would do if they were (I know it is unimaginable) a cop who had to handle the situation.

[Hopey]

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Ok.
Guy is asked to show his ID, like everybody else is asked. He refuses (he has his ID, but refuses to show it). He is asked several more times and told he will have to leave. He refuses to show his ID and refuses to leave.
The campus cops are called.
Only when the cops show up does he seem to begin to leave.

You are a campus police officer called to the incident.
You go over to talk to the young man (who you do not know is a student) and make the horrible mistake of grabbing his arm.
The guy starts screaming at the top of his lungs. He falls limp to the floor and continues to scream.

What do you do? What methods do you employ?
He continues to yell and refuses to get up. What is your play?

Seriously. I am interested in what the "the State is Evil" crowd would do if they were (I know it is unimaginable) a cop who had to handle the situation.

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I call for back-up, handcuff him, place him under arrest, and ask him to come with us voluntarily. If he remains seated on the ground, I have 4 or 5 of my fellow officers drag/carry him from the building.

If he becomes violent during any point in this process, then he gets tasered. Not before.

[AngusThermopyle]

Have you ever tried to lift a 200 lb man who "goes limp"?
Do you realize how much pressure you have to apply to get a good grip? And that such pressure can cause harm?
If you drag him with his hands cuffed behind his back, you might dislocate his shoulder. Bang his knees on the stairs. If he becomes active when you are carrying him, it is easy to drop him, causing injury to him.

Oh. Why did you handcuff him and place him under arrest? What is the charge at that moment?

[dknightx]

all you idiots who keep quoting the "nine friends" thing just proved how retarded you really are. First, that quote was from someone else, and I took it in its entirety instead of just stripping out the part that was relevant. Lo and behold, all you guys can focus on is the completely irrelevant part of the qoute! did you miss the entire first section which is an account of what happened before the police arrive? its sad that the only thing you can grasp on for your argument is a funny joke that some guy made to further prove how much of a loser this kid is (not that this is related to the tasing, just another issue we can discuss if you really want to).

much like quoting that LA times article, stop just looking for the things you want to see.

also, im going to say this one more time. you highly underestimate how easy it is to move a 200 lb person who is passively resisting you. and you highly overestimate how painful a taser is in drive stun mode.

[Richard Tanner]

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Ok.
Guy is asked to show his ID, like everybody else is asked. He refuses (he has his ID, but refuses to show it). He is asked several more times and told he will have to leave. He refuses to show his ID and refuses to leave.
The campus cops are called.
Only when the cops show up does he seem to begin to leave.

You are a campus police officer called to the incident.
You go over to talk to the young man (who you do not know is a student) and make the horrible mistake of grabbing his arm.
The guy starts screaming at the top of his lungs. He falls limp to the floor and continues to scream.

What do you do? What methods do you employ?
He continues to yell and refuses to get up. What is your play?

Seriously. I am interested in what the "the State is Evil" crowd would do if they were (I know it is unimaginable) a cop who had to handle the situation.

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Umm hello, I hit him with a flower (one that already left the earth willingly, I'd never pull one) and say "Now see here, you've made mother earth cry, apologize." At which point the meanie immediately realizes the error of his ways and leaves peacefully. Or not.

See the problem here is this enoromous feeling of compassion for law breakers (in this case, trespassing and disturbing the peace). Was there a better way to get him out of there, Maybe. Does it matter IN THIS CASE, no, not really. I capitalize those words because this situation, like all things in life, should be judged case by case. Alot of people seem to be saying that if we allow Cops to taser this guy, soon they'll be coming into our houses and tasering us for reading the Bible (or not, depending on those in power). Turns out life is a little deeper then just a binary, evil/good, distinction.

Here's a quick list:
Tasering a guy that's trespassing after multiple warnings-fine.
Tasing a group of people that are protesting (using only voices and signs) outside city hall for/against some new law-Not Fine

Feel free to pose other situations, they all have answers.

Cody

[Dr. Strangelove]

I agree with DVaut1.

[grandgnu]

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Yeah, I was referring to the quote below, which dxknight cited. Apparently, it supported his position this kid was not a victim of the police's excessive use of force:

"First of all, this guy is a total loser (he has 9 friends on facebook)"

So, yeah...apparently, before we talk about whether or not the police were out of line, let's FIRST keep in mind this guy was a real friendless schmuck -- because, uh, clearly, that's the first thing we should be considering when we're questioning whether or not the police behaved irresponsibly.

Like I said, I wonder how many of you sick freaks would welcome some kind of authoritarian regime that abused, tortured, and discriminated against the unpopular and disfavored members of society. At least this kid at least had 9 friends on some social networking site. Goodness knows what kind of treatment you guys would support if some unfortunate soul only had 1 or 2 friends on MySpace or Facebook.

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Uh, so you don't get the sarcasm then? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Perhaps I'm overstating my disgust for some of you a bit, but my demagoguery and emotionalism are likely wrought by finding out there's alot more sociopaths in the world then I previously thought.

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WTF? Are you fricken serious? demagoguery ??? Who the hell uses that word? Ah, you're one of those . The type that feel the need to try and speak on a "higher level" above others so you can try and sound superior intellectually.

I'm going back to being a misanthrope.