Cheating in Online Poker

[DVaut1]

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I don't care what kind of money this kid is making or how good he is at poker. I sincerely hope this kid gets locked up at some point in his life.

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I don't want to see anyone go to prison, but there's no reason to knowingly tolerate underage players. The existence of underage players gives every Puritanical, hysterical poker opponent the ammunition they need to take shots at online poker.

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you've got issues with a pretty sizeable % of 2+2 then.

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I don't know what to say; I was under the impression most everyone was +21 -- or at least +18. But yeah, the point still stands: no one gains from having the under-18 crowd play. I have no interest in winning money from underage players. And I frankly don't really care if I "have issues" with underage 2p2ers. They shouldn't be playing, period.

Putting the ethical issues aside from knowingly playing against underage players -- ethical issues which are serious; this constitutes a serious problem for the industry as a whole. *If* sites are powerless against preventing underage players from playing, then those who want to prohibit said sites have a powerful argument.

[illini43]

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How many of you are actually against <18 y/o's playing poker? Because if we seriously try and make an issue of this, we're fighting a losing battle. That's an issue for parents to monitor, not the sites. What way could they possibly regulate this?

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I agree that it is parents/guardians responsibility to montior their childrens' online activity. Perosnally, I have no problem if 17 year olds want to play poker. I'm sure there are plenty of players younger than me who would own me. However, this IS a blatant breach of sites T&C. If there is any gray area related to the other forms of cheating discussed in this thread and others, the sites' policies on underage gaming is black and white.

[Exitonly]

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Putting the ethical issues aside from knowingly playing against underage players -- ethical issues which are serious; this constitutes a serious problem for the industry as a whole. *If* sites are powerless against preventing underage players from playing, then those who want to prohibit said sites have a powerful argument.

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No i dont think i agree. Perhaps someone that follows internet law better would know more, but i remember hearing a story lately about some site (most likely was porn) not having the responsibility to age verify and that it's something that is a parents responsibility.

If thats actually way off base and the ruling was for the other side, then well i guess poker is [censored], but i dont see underage players being a big issue for poker legalization.

[linuxrocks]

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How many of you are actually against <18 y/o's playing poker? Because if we seriously try and make an issue of this, we're fighting a losing battle. That's an issue for parents to monitor, not the sites. What way could they possibly regulate this?

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One simple way is to ask for SSN while registration.

[Exitonly]

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How many of you are actually against <18 y/o's playing poker? Because if we seriously try and make an issue of this, we're fighting a losing battle. That's an issue for parents to monitor, not the sites. What way could they possibly regulate this?

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One simple way is to ask for SSN while registration.

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They'll just use their parents info like they do right now!
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and as adanthar said earlier, that doesnt solve anything, but could easily spook potential players that dont want to hand over their SSN.

[linuxrocks]

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I am going to write an article on cheating in online poker and am looking for any input that anyone has. I consider myself relatively uninformed at this point as to the shadier aspects of the game, but know that cheating runs rampant based on the comments in ActionJeff's post a couple weeks ago.

I have contacted Stars support, but they have been wildly inconsistent and generally disinterested both about specific aspects of cheating I have pointed out (e.g., buying several "idiots" into tournaments and taking over either literally or verbally if they get deep) and their policies in general, with are inconsistent with the statements being made by their support. I also feel they are very wrong about ethical standards in general with their "whatever is unenforceable is acceptable" line of reasoning. ...

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What is the alternative for sites? Do you think adding some clauses to TOS going to solve the problem? If it's not enforceable as some one mentioned, having it in TOS is actually bad. So, you can't blame PS for not reacting favourably. There's no easy way to prevent this on-line.

[odellthurman]

I don't understand Adanthar's characterization of ucla as "going nuts" or zj123's description of ucla's efforts as a "witch hunt". It seems to me that he is interested in a dialogue and plan to identify and prevent cheating.

[linuxrocks]

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How many of you are actually against <18 y/o's playing poker? Because if we seriously try and make an issue of this, we're fighting a losing battle. That's an issue for parents to monitor, not the sites. What way could they possibly regulate this?

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One simple way is to ask for SSN while registration.

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They'll just use their parents info like they do right now!
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and as adanthar said earlier, that doesnt solve anything, but could easily spook propsective players that dont want to hand over their SSN.

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I agree that policing under-age players is not the problem of the site. This problem has been there from the time Internet is used widely by non-CS people.

[DVaut1]

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Putting the ethical issues aside from knowingly playing against underage players -- ethical issues which are serious; this constitutes a serious problem for the industry as a whole. *If* sites are powerless against preventing underage players from playing, then those who want to prohibit said sites have a powerful argument.

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No i dont think i agree. Perhaps someone that follows internet law better would know more, but i remember hearing a story lately about some site (most likely was porn) not having the responsibility to age verify and that it's something that is a parents responsibility.

If thats actually way off base and the ruling was for the other side, then well i guess poker is [censored], but i dont see underage players being a big issue for poker legalization.

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"Age verification" is one thing for MySpace; it's entirely another for gambling websites. Poker sites' ability to prevent underage players from accessing their games is a huge hurdle that needs to be overcome before legalization becomes palatable in the US.

This is tangential to ucla's OP, but underage players should be treated as the same kind of threat to online poker's viability as multi-accounters are. If we're trying to make the game as ethical and transparent as possible in order to appeal to legislators and the public-at-large, then collectively shrugging our shoulders to under 18s who we know play online is foolhardy at best.

[stealthmunk]

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I don't understand Adanthar's characterization of ucla as "going nuts" or zj123's description of ucla's efforts as a "witch hunt". It seems to me that he is interested in a dialogue and plan to identify and prevent cheating.

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His intentions are good, but it is a witch hunt because it is impossible to PROVE anything.(thus analogous to a witch hunt, because how can u prove someone is a witch without ridiculous measures like they did back then. It just leads to more chaos.)

Obviously anyone who is cheating has REAL people in the account names, and the poker sites don't have technology yet to prove who is actually playing the name. As long as there is online poker, there will be cheating. Sure you can catch a few cheaters, but then they will be right back soon enough. Its the beauty/ugliness of the internet.