More Bonds

[RedBean]

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very true but you did it again. you made it seem like aaron participated in ongoing greenie usage when the quote clearly states he only admitted to doing it once.


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I never said it was ongoing, I just said he used illegal substances, which is true.

But I admit, I didn't disclose it was only once, and didn't highlight that it was only illegal by law, and not by MLB rules, and I did so for effect.

The effect being to put some folks in the other pair of shoes and get them to look at it from the other perspective, without having Bonds in the discussion since some folks can see past their intense hate for the guy to look at it simply and rationally.

And I must say, it's astonishing to see the different reaction to similar circumstances when the names are changed.

[RedBean]

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aaron admits to using greenies one single time. you say, "lolol of course he used it more."


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I'm not asserting that, that was some other hombre.

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im just pointing out some credibility issues with redbean.


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I guess it's easy to do when you attribute assertions that don't belong to me.

[vhawk01]

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The argument that they didn't help anyone all that much is weak as hell. If this is the case, why are people STILL looking for covert ways to take them? Not much sense in seeking out steroids for use unless the presumption is they will increase performance dramatically.

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Are you serious? The answer is: because being the only guy not taking steroids will hurt a lot. Being just another guy using steroids doesn't help in any stat that is a RELATIVE stat (which is pretty much every stat in baseball), it only helps your absolute stats. When people say that steroids probably didn't help that much, what they mean is that steroids don't give any given player a huge RELATIVE boost. How could they? They might give an absolute boost, but that doesn't increase any of your stats. NOT taking steroids, however, could lead to a substantial RELATIVE decrease.

[SL__72]

Ted Williams had his best full season in more then a decade at age 38. He also had a sick season at age 41.

[RedBean]

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i think bonds is huge [censored]. is that a complete media fabrication and conspiracy?

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Much like every other swinging dick alive, he's a lot different with his close circle of friends, teammates, and people he cares about.

How many friends you got that would sit in jail for 8 months rather than roll on you?

Ask Mike Vick if he wishes he had friends as loyal as Barry Bonds does.

Those not in the circle, he has certainly been brash and brazen with, because he doesn't want to play the part of singing and dancing monkey to sell Gatorade or Buicks.

He wants to play baseball.

He doesn't have any interest in kissing babies or glad handing every outstretched hand as the grand poobah ambassador of baseball. He doesn't have to be the kiss-ass fan favorite nice guy a la JT Snow to ensure a spot on the roster when his bat can't.

He doesn't think he has to butter up crusty old men who write about sports in newspapers and make a 1/50th his salary out of the fear they'll take it out on him in their reporting.

He thinks it's about the game. Not about writing about the game.

Did he bring the media hate on himself? Certainly. He didn't provoke it as much as he simply refused to pander to the system, and he does things his way.

Would it have been different had he done things their way? Certainly, but why must it be done their way under threat of public smearing?

Because of it, the media makes sure to point out every situation that makes him look worse, and does as little as possible to shine a bright light on anything that might change the negative perception.

They said they'll show him for thinking he was bigger than the system, and in the process, it's gotten beyond ridiculous. He's paid for, definately, but it's a small price to pay for opening the eyes of many on just how ridiculously pompous and envious some of these media guys are. It absolutely KILLS them that after the barrage of the last 4 years, he's still out their going, like a big black energizer bunny toting a 33 ounce bat.

All of it over one man who hits baseballs for a living, because he didn't play the game outside the game the way the media establishment wanted him too.

And it kills them. They know they couldn't stop him, they couldn't slow him down. 715. 755. 761 and counting.

The only glimmer of hope they have left is the HOF snub and the court of public opinion, since it's all they control.

He's not going to jail. He's not getting suspended. He's never going to fail a test. He's not getting an asterisk.

And it kills them that this one man stood up and stood through it all, he took their best, their worst, their all, and he kept right on ticking.

I can't imagine many men alive that could handle his position the way he has, much less still concentrate and perform on the field the way he has performed.

He isn't running into retirement to get away from anything, he keeps showing up day after day, year after year, through it all.....

Because he just wants to play baseball.

He pisses in his cup and takes the tests they wanted to make him take, then walks on the field and pushes the pitchers shit in and smiles knowing that it kills them knowing they can't touch him.

And he does it because he's Barry Bonds, and we're not.

[SL__72]

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Ted Williams had his best full season in more then a decade at age 38. He also had a sick season at age 41.

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Bonds:

age/avg/obp/slg
37 .370 .582 .799
New Steroid policy goes into effect (IIRC)
38 .341 .529 .749 <-year he testified
39 .362 .609 .812
40 Out w/ knee problems almost all year
41 .270 .454 .545
42 .282 .491 .588

Ted Williams:
37 .345 .479 .605
38 .388 .526 .731 <--- Cheater level stats!
39 .328 .458 .584
40 .254 .372 .419
41 .316 .451 .645 <--- Cheater level stats!

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Ted Williams had his best full season in more then a decade at age 38. He also had a sick season at age 41.

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well, he had been at war for a good deal of that previous decade, so it's not impressive as it might sound.

anyways, his post 35 (post war) stretch is well below is pre war stretch. that's all I was saying about Aaron as well, and what separates Bonds from the rest of them: he peaked, and by a huge degree, after 35. I don't think anybody else ever did.

I'm not using this to assume guilt of anything, I'm just saying that's what the #'s are.

edit: Williams average .eqa for years 20 - 30: .373
for his 35 and over years : .353

[Levarkin]

Great stuff RedBean.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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edit: Williams average .eqa for years 20 - 30: .373
for his 35 and over years : .353

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too late to edit, but I wanted to give the Bonds comparison for this (though at this point I'm beating a dead horse).

Bonds average eqa for ages 21 - 34: .334
for just his 'peak' years ages 25 - 34: 350
for ages 35 - 42, excluding his injured year: .403

[RedBean]

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So, while they both enjoyed power surges late in their career, Bonds was even more pronounced. and in terms of overall hitting, it's not even close between the 2: Bonds best years, easily, came post 35, while this isn't true for Aaron at all.

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Totally agree here. I don't think anyone will argue that Bonds isn't mountains ahead of Aaron at this age when anything aside from just HR production is considered.

I isolated that as I take umbrage with people pointing at hitting your peak HR total at age 36, a late career "surge", as some sort of evidence that "something isn't right".

SI tells people that declines start at age 32-33, so many have been conditioned to believe it, and they forget about the Evans', the Sauer's, the Aaron's, the Fisk's, etc, etc, and point to Bonds and say "aha! you hit lots homeruns in late thirties, you must be cheat!"

Hank, as much as I love the man and I don't say this to take anything away....but he was a compiler who enjoyed great longevity and was in a lot of the right places at the right times that were advantgeous to him.

He has a place for sure, but it isn't in the discussion of overall greatness/dominance with Bonds, Ruth, Williams, and Mays.