Jordan was overrated? - Page 12

gusmahler · #**111** 05-14-2007, 07:00 PM

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If i am starting a team from scratch I pick Bill Russell as with my number one pick. Anyone that has wilt over Bill doesn’t understand team basketball at all.

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Didn't Russell have a significantly better team than Wilt?

gusmahler · #**112** 05-14-2007, 07:13 PM

BTW, you can get Kalb's book for 20 cents from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Whos-Better-Be...dp/0071417885/

Assani Fisher · #**113** 05-14-2007, 07:42 PM

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I stumbled across a book called "Who's Better, Who's Best in Basketball?" which ranks the 50 greatest players of all time according to the author, Elliot Kalb. I did a bit of research online, and from everything I can tell Kalb is highly respected.

Kalb has MJ ranked only #3.

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Was this the book that had Shaq #1 and Wilt #2?

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yes

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Then it loses all legitimacy. Putting Shaq #1 on a rating of greatest players is a joke. Most dominant? Maybe, due to his size and position, although Wilt has him there as well. Greatest? Best? No way. The skills that Jordan and many others have put him much further down the list.

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I think the book was put out a few years ago before we had seen any signs of "lazy Shaq" FWIW. Also dismissing his argument without even hearing it is pretty silly imo. Hes been an NBA analyist and scout for around 20 years...give him some respect.

Assani Fisher · #**114** 05-14-2007, 07:42 PM

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If i am starting a team from scratch I pick Bill Russell as with my number one pick. Anyone that has wilt over Bill doesn’t understand team basketball at all.

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Didn't Russell have a significantly better team than Wilt?

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yes, a fact that sevenhigh conveniently ignores completely.

Assani Fisher · #**115** 05-14-2007, 07:44 PM

i agree with your point about jordan though, sevenhigh

sevenhigh · #**116** 05-14-2007, 11:02 PM

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If i am starting a team from scratch I pick Bill Russell as with my number one pick. Anyone that has wilt over Bill doesn’t understand team basketball at all.

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Didn't Russell have a significantly better team than Wilt?

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yes, a fact that sevenhigh conveniently ignores completely.

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Russells teammates where def better. However Bills work ethic, outlook on the game, competitiveness and leadership were second to none. This is something I value extremely high as my number one pick.

Assani Fisher · #**117** 05-14-2007, 11:15 PM

sevenhigh, don't get me wrong- I love what Russell stood for. But he had 4 other HOFers on his team and perhaps the greatest coach of all time. You can't dismiss how much that helps and how much that makes him look like a "winner."

FWIW Wilt had the 4th highest PER of all time at 26.12. Russell was #97 with a PER of 18.87.

Pretty shocking thought: Shareef Abdur Rahim, Stephon Marbury, Cedric Ceballos, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Zach Randolph, and Terrell Brandon all have better career PERs than Russell.

Taraz · #**118** 05-15-2007, 04:15 AM

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sevenhigh, don't get me wrong- I love what Russell stood for. But he had 4 other HOFers on his team and perhaps the greatest coach of all time. You can't dismiss how much that helps and how much that makes him look like a "winner."

FWIW Wilt had the 4th highest PER of all time at 26.12. Russell was #97 with a PER of 18.87.

Pretty shocking thought: Shareef Abdur Rahim, Stephon Marbury, Cedric Ceballos, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Zach Randolph, and Terrell Brandon all have better career PERs than Russell.

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Russell's biggest impact was on the defensive end. PER doesn't account for defense, especially since blocks and steals weren't recorded back then.

BigSoonerFan · #**119** 05-16-2007, 07:14 AM

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I stumbled across a book called "Who's Better, Who's Best in Basketball?" which ranks the 50 greatest players of all time according to the author, Elliot Kalb. I did a bit of research online, and from everything I can tell Kalb is highly respected.

Kalb has MJ ranked only #3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this the book that had Shaq #1 and Wilt #2?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

[/ QUOTE ]

Then it loses all legitimacy. Putting Shaq #1 on a rating of greatest players is a joke. Most dominant? Maybe, due to his size and position, although Wilt has him there as well. Greatest? Best? No way. The skills that Jordan and many others have put him much further down the list.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the book was put out a few years ago before we had seen any signs of "lazy Shaq" FWIW. Also dismissing his argument without even hearing it is pretty silly imo. Hes been an NBA analyist and scout for around 20 years...give him some respect.

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What argument can he put out there that hasn't already been done. Give him some respect? Are you kidding? I'm not on a television show with ten million people watching. Showing respect isn't part of the discussion.

BigSoonerFan · #**120** 05-16-2007, 07:16 AM

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sevenhigh, don't get me wrong- I love what Russell stood for. But he had 4 other HOFers on his team and perhaps the greatest coach of all time. You can't dismiss how much that helps and how much that makes him look like a "winner."

FWIW Wilt had the 4th highest PER of all time at 26.12. Russell was #97 with a PER of 18.87.

Pretty shocking thought: Shareef Abdur Rahim, Stephon Marbury, Cedric Ceballos, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Zach Randolph, and Terrell Brandon all have better career PERs than Russell.

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Russell's biggest impact was on the defensive end. PER doesn't account for defense, especially since blocks and steals weren't recorded back then.

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Wilt wasn't exactly too shabby on defense. I can't remember what the exact stats are were when Wilt played Russell, but I seem to remember they were pretty lobsided.