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#111
10-04-2007, 04:46 PM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'll even go out on a limb and say it's very rare (maybe even impossible), for a bet to be purely for value if it isn't on the river. [/ QUOTE ] This is similar to what I said earlier: [ QUOTE ] In fact, very few pure bluffs are made, and even fewer pure value bets. [/ QUOTE ] In actual practice, you are only making a pure value bet when you have the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] Describe a situation where we are valuebetting a non-nut hand, and in that context describe the factors that reduce the "purity" of our value bet please. I make bets all the time that are 100% value. 
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#112
10-04-2007, 04:47 PM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
[ QUOTE ]
p.s. "fold equity" is more misused than most of these terms because while it is true that (% he folds)*($ in pot) is a piece of the equation that tells us whether a bet gains or loses $, it is incredibly important WHICH HANDS HE FOLDS AND WHAT HE WOULD HAVE DONE WITH THEM IF YOU HADN'T MADE THE BET THAT GETS HIM TO FOLD THEM. If I ever post a rant like gobbo's, it will be about fold equity. [/ QUOTE ] post it! but no need to yell i have sensitive ears
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#113
10-04-2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'll even go out on a limb and say it's very rare (maybe even impossible), for a bet to be purely for value if it isn't on the river. [/ QUOTE ] This is similar to what I said earlier: [ QUOTE ] In fact, very few pure bluffs are made, and even fewer pure value bets. [/ QUOTE ] In actual practice, you are only making a pure value bet when you have the nuts. [/ QUOTE ] Describe a situation where we are valuebetting a non-nut hand, and in that context describe the factors that reduce the "purity" of our value bet please. I make bets all the time that are 100% value. [/ QUOTE ] If opponent is behind and has any chance to move ahead by the river, your bet is not a 100% value bet. By making him pay to continue to the next street, the bet partially serves to reduce the chance that your opponent will move ahead because there is some chance he will fold rather than pay. Probabalistically, you can not obtain 100% of the value of your bet if there is a chance you can be beat. Since you can not know for certainty whether you are ahead/behind unless you hold the nuts, any non-nuts bet is not a 100% value bet.
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#114
10-04-2007, 05:11 PM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
We're not talking about obtaining 100% of value from our bet. We're talking about whether the intentions of our bet are solely for value. We are getting value from these hands that are worse than ours.
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#115
10-04-2007, 05:33 PM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
[ QUOTE ]
We're not talking about obtaining 100% of value from our bet. We're talking about whether the intentions of our bet are solely for value. We are getting value from these hands that are worse than ours. [/ QUOTE ] Getting 100% of the value of your bet is the same thing as a bet being 100% a value bet. In the vast majority of cases, we can not characterize the actual range of effects of a bet in terms of betting intentions. Only if you hold the absolute nuts or if you know your opponent's exact hand is it possible for pure betting intentions to completely match the bet's effects. You might perceive that your non-nuts bet's only intention is to get worse hands to call, but if one of your bet's effects is to get better hands to fold then it is not 100% a value bet. Value betting is defined as increasing the stakes for a known advantage. Since there are almost no situations where you know 100% for sure that you have an advantage, there are almost no 100% value bets.
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#116
10-04-2007, 08:15 PM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
I think everyone agrees there are many different reasons to bet or raise, even if it's only to impress the girls. but getting back to the topic of "raising for information", I think if you asked some of the top tourney players, some of them might say they do, so it could be a valid reason to raise.
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#117
10-05-2007, 12:56 AM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
[ QUOTE ]
baltostar is smarter than most people give him credit [/ QUOTE ]
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#118
10-05-2007, 03:12 AM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] <3 but shhhhhhhhhhhhh [/ QUOTE ] welcome to 2003? [/ QUOTE ] this was essentially the same thread that I responded to in my very first 2p2 post edit: and I disagreed strongly then, and disagree only slightly now (but still disagree) betting for information can absolutely have value at times but I dont really wanna read this thread
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#119
10-05-2007, 05:17 AM
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Re: STOP SAYING you are raising or betting for information!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] baltostar is smarter than most people give him credit [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] I don't doubt balto is a smart guy, he's clearly giving the game a lot of thought, which is essential to develop as a player. But really smart people are the ones who can admit their wrongs and are able to listen to what others have to say.
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