Apparently songs are worth $9250 each...Dumb Jury

[NasEscobar]

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Why is entitlement relevant to a claim about whether or not piracy hurts musicians finanically? I mean, I can say the RICO act hurt the profits of gansters without implying that I feel gangsters are entitled to that money, cant I?

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Yeah that's true. What I'm trying to get at is that perhaps laws against sharing music are harming everyone else, and that repealing these laws isn't harming the RIAA, it's just removing the unfair treatment they were given in the first place.
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Anyway, you seem pretty against intellectual property, so, Ill ask you: should all IP laws, including stuff that protects drug inventors from having ripoffs being sold immediately, be repealed?

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I don't know. I havn't delved into the issue of drug companies and patents much. One doesn't have to be against all types of IP to be against laws against music sharing.

I just think the idea of listening to a song you got for free from someone else being a punishable offense is ridiculous, and I don't think artists (more acurately in todays world to be some large corporation) are entitled to income from their music.

[miajag]

Drew, while I agree with you in principle, that's a poor analogy because artists don't do more work for each copy of a song that's made. They just record it once and then it's reproduced thousands of times on CD or on hard drives. While making unauthorized copies is certainly stealing their intellectual property, it's not the same as making them do work and then just not paying.

[miajag]

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I don't think artists (more acurately in todays world to be some large corporation) are entitled to income from their music.

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Why is this?

Do you think authors are entitled to income from their books? Actors and directors from their movies?

[NasEscobar]

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You don't seriously believe something has to be an "object" before you can sell it, do you?


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No, but how can you say I'm "stealing" from you if I don't even take anything from you? Me listening to your song for free hasn't deprived you of anything.

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Yes it has

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No I haven't. You are in the exact same state you were before. You are not entitled to something just because you would be better off if you did have it.

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lol. Read a [censored] book on property law, or better yet, just stop posting.

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What the [censored] is your problem?

It should be pretty obvious based on my posts I don't see music as property, and this isn't like some "out there" point of view, it's supported by a lot people. I guess none of them have read a book on property law though.

[NasEscobar]

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I don't think artists (more acurately in todays world to be some large corporation) are entitled to income from their music.

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Why is this?

Do you think authors are entitled to income from their books? Actors and directors from their movies?

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I fully support their ability to make money, but fining people for sharing books and movies I also find ridiculous. They should spend their time finding ways to really influence people to want to pay for their work for reasons other then scare tactics and quarter million dollar fines.

[bogey1]

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They just record it once and then it's reproduced thousands of times on CD or on hard drives.

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This is true for most any manufactured good. The cost to produce is much less than the price, the difference between them the margin of profit. Intellectual goods are "high margin".

If you create a single non-nanufactured thing, you sell it at a high price because you sell it once. For something you're going to sell over and over, you charge less hoping to recoup your investment (and then some) over a large number of sales.

The fact that intellectual goods are almost free to product doesn't change the manufacturing "high margin" and "recoup investment" realities.

People (pro-piracy) folks often argue "It's not the same as stealing a book from the bookstore, that's physical".

Well, yes, it is the same, the level of sameness depending on the margin. You're stealing the "margin" in both cases. In the case of the book, you're also stealing the raw material cost as well.

[KotOD]

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You may be completely right about this and I may be wrong about the relative importance of CD/song sales to the music industry, but the loss of CD/song sales to piracy is indisputably in the billions.

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I don't dispute that -- but it's the record companies losing the money, not the artists themselves.

An interesting point here is that concert ticket sales were up 15% in 2006...make of that what you will.

[stabn]

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It should be pretty obvious based on my posts I don't see music as property, and this isn't like some "out there" point of view, it's supported by a lot people.


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My uncle ned says that it is property so you are wrong. Lots of people agreed with him at the family reunion as well.

[NasEscobar]

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This is really, really dumb.

I'm a lawyer and my inventory is, quite literally, time. I am paid for the number of hours I work on a project. My hourly rate is determined by the market, my experience and my expertise.

If I do work for you and send you a bill and then you don't pay, you have stolen from me, even if I don't give you anything tanglible. You haven't "deprived" me of anything either, and yet you have stolen.

Thus it is with music, another non-tangible thing of value.

If you do not agree with this, please punch yourself in the face until you are unconscious.

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I don't think you could have come up with a worse anology there chief.

[miajag]

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They should spend their time finding ways to really influence people to want to pay for their work for reasons other then scare tactics and quarter million dollar fines.

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I generally agree with this statement, but just because they're doing what the law allows them to do and not what they "should" do doesn't make awarding statutory/punitive damages for breaking the law some horrible injustice.