What is good about faith?

[Brad1970]

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Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

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I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

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Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[Brad1970]

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Brad I don't know why you posted in this thread since you seem so averse to debate "its like trying to teach a pig to talk", "nothing you say is going to change anything" (paraphrasing). This clearly isn't going anywhere though.
Fin.

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I'm not adverse to debate at all. All I have done is post my position. Some people in this thread are too busy trying to split hairs over everything I post.

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Then why make statements implying that debate is pointless? Stating your position repeatedly is not debate and what you call "splitting hairs" many would simply call basic discussion/debate. It's clear to me you are coming at this from an emotional rather than a logical perspective. I'd recommend taking an introductory philosophy class.

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I am not pointing a finger at any particular person or group of persons for doing so.

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[Atheists] are so bogged down in sin & living in worldly ways that they think that's
what makes them happy. For some, that's all they know.
All you have to do is surf thru most of the posts in
NVG or BBV & see how many are about "wow, look at me do
an 8 ball of coke" or "ask me about the strip club" or
"guess how many beers I can drink" or "should I screw
this hooker".


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Atheists are a group of persons..

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I made those statement after I realized that arguing Christianity with an atheist is a pointless exercise.

Also, I should have worded the above quote a little differently. It should say non-believers not necessarily atheists. Stepping back I probably lumped the two groups together from a behavioral standpoint. My apologies.

[Brad1970]

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I'm shocked that you find the act of engaging a prostitute morally ok!!!


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I'll end the quoting marathon for Silent A.

even if you feel that sex is something sacred that should be shared between a man and a woman after marriage and only for the purposes of child bearing...it doesn't matter.

some people, myself included, do not see sex that way.

now, obviously, if I don't find murder to be immoral..that or course doesn't mean that I should be allowed to go around murdering people.

the difference is that murdering entails the violation of an unwilling participant's rights (unless the victim consents...assisted suicide, for instance, is fine with me under the same principles)...but engaging in prostitution concerns only willing participants..

one offers a service, the other purchases it...in order for something to me morally wrong, in my mind, an unwilling person must be coerced in some way...here, no one is coerced..

furthermore, in this situation...it is presumably a win/win...the prostitute would not offer her service if she did not find the money more appealing than not performing the act...and the customer would not purchase the service if he did not find the act more appealing than the money.

prostitute and customer are happy...and even if they regretted their decision...it doesn't matter one bit to me...what matters is that they both consented and did not violate anyone else.

where is the moral dilemma in this situation?...the notion that it is necessarily immoral is indefensible without invoking some abstract morality like that of many theists...it simply cannot be reproduced when we consider actual human suffering and happiness.

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Fine. Think what you want. We'll agree to disagree.

[Prodigy54321]

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I'm shocked that you find the act of engaging a prostitute morally ok!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll end the quoting marathon for Silent A.

even if you feel that sex is something sacred that should be shared between a man and a woman after marriage and only for the purposes of child bearing...it doesn't matter.

some people, myself included, do not see sex that way.

now, obviously, if I don't find murder to be immoral..that or course doesn't mean that I should be allowed to go around murdering people.

the difference is that murdering entails the violation of an unwilling participant's rights (unless the victim consents...assisted suicide, for instance, is fine with me under the same principles)...but engaging in prostitution concerns only willing participants..

one offers a service, the other purchases it...in order for something to me morally wrong, in my mind, an unwilling person must be coerced in some way...here, no one is coerced..

furthermore, in this situation...it is presumably a win/win...the prostitute would not offer her service if she did not find the money more appealing than not performing the act...and the customer would not purchase the service if he did not find the act more appealing than the money.

prostitute and customer are happy...and even if they regretted their decision...it doesn't matter one bit to me...what matters is that they both consented and did not violate anyone else.

where is the moral dilemma in this situation?...the notion that it is necessarily immoral is indefensible without invoking some abstract morality like that of many theists...it simply cannot be reproduced when we consider actual human suffering and happiness.

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Fine. Think what you want. We'll agree to disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

we don't have to agree to disagree if you have an argument for the immorality of prostitution that is not just, "because the bible says so" or "because chritians think it's wrong"...and I would like to hear a secular argument..I'm certainly willing to change my mind if someone can show me why it is immoral.

as I said, if it is just based on the abstract morality of Christianity, then we will indeed have to agree to disagree.

[Subfallen]

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Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

[Brad1970]

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[ QUOTE ]
Brad -

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not adverse to debate at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

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Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

[Kaj]

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Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

[Atrophy]

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I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

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Word.

[Prodigy54321]

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Brad -

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not adverse to debate at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh..I'll take almost any opportunity to hate on Brad, but I haven't read any Jung either..I'm only 20 though.

I'll take a look at his stuff if I can ever rid myself of my recent infatuation with fiction..(of course some chick convinced me to read a novel for the first time in years (can you believe I have never read 1984..)..and now I can't seem to go back [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]..His Dark Materials are next [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

[Kaj]

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Brad -

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not adverse to debate at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

[/ QUOTE ]

Who is Jung??

And I guess if being religious makes me "illogical" and "sick" in your view, then I guess I'm doing something right.

[/ QUOTE ]

What country do you live in? Do you seriously not know anything about Jung?

Anyways, I wasn't addressing your beliefs, but rather the way you believe them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never heard of him...I, like the general populace of the world, have better things to do than read psychology books.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't exactly be proud to be 37 years old and at the level of the general populace in my ignorance of one the most famous writers in the 20th century on the subject of the human mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh..I'll take almost any opportunity to hate on Brad, but I haven't read any Jung either..I'm only 20 though.

I'll take a look at his stuff if I can ever rid myself of my recent infatuation with fiction..(of course some chick convinced me to read a novel for the first time in years (can you believe I have never read 1984..)..and now I can't seem to go back [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]..His Dark Materials are next [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

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It's not that he hasn't read Jung, it's that he "like the general populace has better things to do." That statement irked me -- as if watching another episode of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire (or posting on 2+2) is somehow superior. But I'm grouchy at times.