HonestHoldem Terms and Conditions

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is more retarded? Ray or 2+2 for allowing him to continue to post this bullshiat.

-Brendan

[/ QUOTE ]

Its in our best interest to allow 2+2 to let him discuss his point of views, its important to see both sides of the story.

Ray: Have you invited anyone from the FBI to your bot contest? I'm sure they would be interested, after all the FBI is always invited to the black hat hacker conferences. If you don't have any relationships there I'm sure someone here can save you the trouble by introducing you to them...

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Botchman]

[ QUOTE ]

i want to play a form of online holdem where there is zero
chance of getting "screwed over"

ray bornert


[/ QUOTE ]

So you are pretty much saying its ok to cheat because it's possible??? How the hell does that make it right??? Others may be cheating in live poker as well, so that gives you the right to cheat in b&m games??? You need to get a life dude. Just because it is possible you might be getting screwed in no way makes it right to screw others, it just makes what both parties are doing wrong.

[Botchman]

[ QUOTE ]
if somebody says:
"i want to play an online holdem game where it's not
possible for one of my opponents to click the accept button
and then not cooperate with the t&c"
we can point them toward an honest holdem site.

ray bornert

[/ QUOTE ]

The same goes for live poker, people agree to rules and some people break them(CHEATING SCUMBAGS). Just because it is possible to cheat online or live does not make it right, this is what u fail to realize, or just want to plain ignore. On another note i don't think your software would be half as bad if it didnt have the "team" option.Although I would prefer it didnt exist. But it does and there will always be cheating scumbags out there. Just the way it is

[LeeLoo]

"think about it. if you played there, the operator can
never accuse you of cheating; neither can your opponents.
there would be no such thing as not getting a cash out.
there'd be no 2+2 threads here claiming the site is rigged
or the shuffle is false or other."

These things do not bother me. The reason they bother you is because you cheat.

You complain that sites do not protect you from cheaters so you become a cheater to be on a level playing field. You then encourage the cheating and become one of the ring leaders of the cheaters. You create and encourage what the sites cannot protect you from. While there might of been a slight inneffective infection you are the one that helped turn it into a full blown death dealing virus for the game.

Your quote above is nothing but self serving balony.

You are like a little boy who goes to a swimming pool and finds out that someone pissed in the water you were swimming in who then decides if I have to swim in water that someone might have pissed in then I'm going to make sure everyone swims in piss. Then you invite all your friends to piss with you. Then when the pool is full of piss you want to post a sign that tells everyone the pool is full of piss and hope people show up so you can piss on them some more. You are a retard that causes the problem.

[TreyOfLight]

Most of the replies to Ray here are embarrassing to read.

I have a couple of technical quibbles about his posts, and I am sure not pleased by the prospect of non-human or colluding opponents, but his position is fundamentally sound. The changes he describes are inevitable because, in the long run, there's no cheating reality.

Try ignoring what you, personally, wish were true, and examine Ray's position dispassionately.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who is more retarded? Ray or 2+2 for allowing him to continue to post this bullshiat.

-Brendan

[/ QUOTE ]

ray

Its in our best interest to allow 2+2 to let him discuss his point of views, its important to see both sides of the story.

Ray: Have you invited anyone from the FBI to your bot contest? I'm sure they would be interested, after all the FBI is always invited to the black hat hacker conferences. If you don't have any relationships there I'm sure someone here can save you the trouble by introducing you to them...

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

tt,

i know we had strong words in the pbwc thread.
not sure how to regard your fbi suggestion here.
i'd be quite happy if a member of the fbi wanted
to attend the pbwc.

the ngc had to decline for legal reasons.
they are not allowed to attend using their own budget
or my budget; if they use their budget then it looks
like favoritism; and attending on my dime looks like a
bribe. it's disappointing but it makes sense.

ray

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the replies to Ray here are embarrassing to read.

I have a couple of technical quibbles about his posts, and I am sure not pleased by the prospect of non-human or colluding opponents, but his position is fundamentally sound. The changes he describes are inevitable because, in the long run, there's no cheating reality.

Try ignoring what you, personally, wish were true, and examine Ray's position dispassionately.

[/ QUOTE ]

trey,

i agree.

i got a 3 day ban because i was accused of double threading the same topic.

but if you examine the core discussion for each thread
you can readily see that the honest holdem t&c is discussion
about whether or not the t&c is honest and accurate.

the polling thread was supposed to be a discussion about
how the 2+2 crowd felt about such a site regardless of the
honesty issue.

the 2+2 crowd apparently cannot or will not see 2 issues.
they only want to measure things by whether or not they
want that instead of whether or not it can be secured.

adults understand why you cant have 12 cookies a day.
children do not.

children measure the world based entirely upon what they want.

adults dont.

ray bornert

[Mike Haven]

Ray,

There aren't too many reasons why you are not banned from this site, simply because you try to profit from cheating pokerplayers.

I would prefer that you posted only in your Software thread, from now on, as any valuable input, if there ever was any, in the Zoo threads has been exhausted.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if somebody says:
"i want to play an online holdem game where it's not
possible for one of my opponents to click the accept button
and then not cooperate with the t&c"
we can point them toward an honest holdem site.

ray bornert

[/ QUOTE ]

The same goes for live poker, people agree to rules and some people break them(CHEATING SCUMBAGS). Just because it is possible to cheat online or live does not make it right, this is what u fail to realize, or just want to plain ignore. On another note i don't think your software would be half as bad if it didnt have the "team" option.Although I would prefer it didnt exist. But it does and there will always be cheating scumbags out there. Just the way it is

[/ QUOTE ]

you cant make progress until you stop comparing the live
game with the online game with the expectation that they
be the same. they are not the same.

the purpose of the live game is to reveal the true nature of each player

the purpose of the online game is to cover the true nature of each player.

each game accomplishes it's mission very well.

consider the following list of differences between the
live game and the online game

online game differences:
-1 players are no longer in line of sight
-2 players can be in multiple casinos at once
-3 players can be on more than one table
-4 players can control multiple accounts
-5 players have access to digital hand histories
-6 players can consult analysis tools
-7 players can use a voip headset
-8 players get deposit bonuses
-9 players can get rake back
-10 players can be a site affiliate

but just consider this one single difference
in the live game, nobody uses a computer to participate
in the online game, everyone uses a computer to participate

ray bornert

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]


the purpose of the live game is to reveal the true nature of each player

the purpose of the online game is to cover the true nature of each player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ray you can't even get that right.

The purpose of the live game is to provide entertainment for the players and to make money for the house that spreads it.

The purpose of the internet game is to provide entertainment for the players and make money for the site that provides it.

If either game wasn't entertaining almost noone would play

If either game wasn't profitable for the game providers it would not exist.

Both games accomplish their objectives both games are similar yet not the same as any 3 year old could tell you.

I've only played live poker once - I don't want to make the internet game into teh live game - I prefer online play because it's much faster.

I just want players who play the games I do to not cheat.

I want the sites that provde the games I play to do more to prevent people cheating - I want to play and beat people.

If "Honest Holdem" is so important to you go and setup HH and see how succesful it is and quit encouraging people to cheat.

Also in all seriousness how many casual players do you think actually read the T&C's of any poker site before they deposit?