Lee Jones Reiterates his policy on cheating; BOYCOTT STARS - Page 11

locutus2002 · #**101** 03-27-2006, 08:42 PM

80% of your buyin goes to the final table, which may be dominated by multiaccounters and teams of strong players. You are giving up substantial EV.

Punker · #**102** 03-27-2006, 08:50 PM

Quick explanation:

Assume the following sequence:
Deposit $100
Cashout $500
Deposit $100
Cashout $100

The first cashout will see $100 go instantly (your previous deposit) and $400 (your profits) take a day or two.

The $100 cashout will be instant as when you cashed out the first $500, your redeemable balance was reset to $0, not to "minus $400".

So, yes, it is possible to get instant cashouts if you are a big lifetime winner anyways.

FlyingSumo · #**103** 03-27-2006, 08:55 PM

Can't see how things gonna get better here. It's impossible to prove that people multiaccount if they do it "properly". Some of the rules and changes that have been suggested will only do harm to honest people happening to be playing at same ISP as others.

I am terrified of winning 10k$ and have it taken away due to fish1 playing a tourney at the same time at a hotel or whatever other place.

If someone discovers someone cheating I will gladly be helpful to send a nutcracker and baseballbat for proper tournament theory adjustment of that specific cheater.

I think it's time to accept that the sites can't help us, and we got to take matters into our own hands. But please, no witchhunting, proof matters.

Oh... btw... I boycott Party.

palman · #**104** 03-27-2006, 09:12 PM

Substantial is overstating it, and perhaps I was underestimating it, regardless, if I'm buying into a $200 tourney, I can't imagine my EV changing by more than a few dollars.

I'm not claiming that it isn't unethical, I am just stating that it isn't as big of a deal that people are making it out to be either. "Boycotting stars" is making a way bigger deal over a relatively minor issue. If it wasn't for big "name" players being caught, it would have stayed a minor issue.

When getting into playing online for $, you have to realize that there are going to be plenty of scumbags involved. If this was the extent of the scumbaggery, I'd sleep well at night. Frankly, I consider us lucky that more widespread cheating doesn't go on. I would have guessed the cheats would have ruined online poker by now, but most likely they will in the next 5 years. I was a computer game dork for so long I guess that I fully expect cheats to ruin everything, as they do pretty much every online game.

DLizzle · #**105** 03-27-2006, 09:19 PM

What are thoughts on this? A group of players, say 2-10 players, buy in to the $1000 pokerstars million. They split the buyin somehow, basing payouts on how much they put in. Anyway, they sit around one computer and play the tourney together. There is no way of catching this, but how do you feel about it?

mlagoo · #**106** 03-27-2006, 09:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What are thoughts on this? A group of players, say 2-10 players, buy in to the $1000 pokerstars million. They split the buyin somehow, basing payouts on how much they put in. Anyway, they sit around one computer and play the tourney together. There is no way of catching this, but how do you feel about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not good.

There is also no way of stopping it without stopping online poker players from logging on from the same IP (stopping people from logging on from the same campus or similiar shared IP sources), AND stopping online poker players from using instant messenger programs or chat rooms (they could effectively do the same thing you are talking about by all logging on to the same chat room and talking about their hands/reads

I don't want online poker sites to do that. I imagine most other people don't want that either. It's a matter of balancing utility. I think the utility I gain by being able to chat with friends while playing poker is greater than the utility I lose from the small chance that there are dudes who happen to end up at the same table talking about their hands.

gumpzilla · #**107** 03-27-2006, 09:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]

There is also no way of stopping it without stopping online poker players from logging on from the same IP (stopping people from logging on from the same campus or similiar shared IP sources), AND stopping online poker players from using instant messenger programs or chat rooms (they could effectively do the same thing you are talking about by all logging on to the same chat room and talking about their hands/reads

[/ QUOTE ]

Both of those are not very effective deterrents against old school people in a room technology, which is what the guy you're replying to was talking about. And which clearly it is inconceivable that Stars could ever do anything about.

mlagoo · #**108** 03-27-2006, 09:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Both of those are not very effective deterrents against old school people in a room technology, which is what the guy you're replying to was talking about. And which clearly it is inconceivable that Stars could ever do anything about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right I guess what I was saying is that what he was talking about can be effectively done even without being in the same room, so it's not as simple as that. It's just not really possible to stop without going to unreasonable levels of security.

palman · #**109** 03-27-2006, 09:37 PM

I can't imagine that Zee Justin, JJ prodigy, and Noah Boeken sitting around a computer talking about hands really increases their EV much at at all. They all know what to do for the most part, so they're going to agree on what to do in most situations. In the situations where there is disagreement, I imagine that'll confuse the player making the decision more than anything.

I've certainly discussed hands in a tournament situation over IM with someone at about the same skill level (there'd be no point talking to someone with a lesser skill level, unless you were just in the process of teaching them) and I can say without a doubt that doing so has caused me to do things more stupidly. If I have a hunch someone is bluffing, but it's probably a fold, and my friend says to fold.... I know, me personally, that I'm more likely to call just to kinda impress my friend with a "great read." I'm actually 100% positive that having people sweat me in a tournament has cost me $, opposed to making me $. It is very difficult to be "in the zone" when talking with multiple people at the same time.

$_DEADSEXE_$ · #**110** 03-27-2006, 09:56 PM

I hope more 2+2ers are idiotic enough to boycott Stars over them not trying to enforce no coaching or one player/one hand.
The less 2n2ers I have to play against on Stars the better.

I just wanted to so thanks to all those folks who are dumb enough to boycott Stars due to them not enforcing a rule that is impossible,impractical, and completely retarded to enforce.