Something we all should see

[BuddyQ]

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What caused the third building to fall?

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Claim: Seven hours after the two towers fell, the 47-story WTC 7 collapsed. According to 911review.org: "The video clearly shows that it was not a collapse subsequent to a fire, but rather a controlled demolition: amongst the Internet investigators, the jury is in on this one."

Fire Storm: WTC 7 stands amid the rubble of the recently collapsed Twin Towers. Damaged by falling debris, the building then endures a fire that rages for hours. Experts say this combination, not a demolition-style implosion, led to the roofline "kink" that signals WTC 7's progressive collapse. (Photograph by New York Office of Emergency Management)

FACT: Many conspiracy theorists point to FEMA's preliminary report, which said there was relatively light damage to WTC 7 prior to its collapse. With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7," NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.

According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."

There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.

Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors — along with the building's unusual construction — were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.

[TheWorm967]

I thought part three was pretty enlightening.

discuss

[corsakh]

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pps: I've changed my mind while writing this and am leaving this atrocity open for a while because I don't feel like feeding any persecution complexes today. You have a couple of days to bitch about how I work for the man before I lock it. Enjoy!

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Oh, thank you dear sir your overwhelming hospitality. What a great and generous move, worthy of only the greatest mods on this forum. Hail, adanther!

[corsakh]

BuddyQ, what you saying about steel is fine. Now please explain this. Say you have a reinforced steel rod exposed to high temperature at one point. At this point, steel will start expanding and deformation of surrounding concrete will occur. Its not gonna be expanding in up and and down direction, its going to be expanding in EVERY direction equally at the point CLOSE to the exposure. So we are going to end up with a major deformation of one concrete plate at most. So unless there was fire on every single floor, what happened to the steel pillars from the lower and the very top levels? Why would they all collapse simultaneously PURELY from "pancake" effect at the speed of free fall?

[5thStreetHog]

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How does he get December 25th for these characters? Our calender was created thousands of later. Also, these prior "Jesus's" are myths. Jesus had many witnesses, which were written and testified to by MANY people. Did everyone at that time just decide to create a huge lie?? How do some miracles happen? A supernatural force maybe, but isn't that one way of describing God?

[/ QUOTE ]The sad part about religion is that you cant teach the truth to people who are complete sheep and totally blind to reality.Amazing we read greek mythology and think how foolish they were to believe such things,but here we are today and people are no wiser.Ever try to have a logical debate with a christian?You might as well just bash your head against a wall for an hour,its pointless.

[BuddyQ]

My last post here, can waste more time with you moonbat crackpots, grow up, would you please?

When out on a mountain trail in the West you hear the thumping of hoofs just over the next rise, but you can't see the source of the noise. The sound fades, then all is quiet. Reasonable people assume horses, cranks and misfits assume zebras. The burden of proving such an extraordinary occurrence, you know like a vast highly complex secret conspiracy, is on the one proposing it. And since the claimed event is so unusual, the amount and quality of the evidence must be great. The debunked and disjointed ramblings of internet kooks falls far short. Get help.

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BuddyQ, what you saying about steel is fine. Now please explain this. Say you have a reinforced steel rod exposed to high temperature at one point. At this point, steel will start expanding and deformation of surrounding concrete will occur. Its not gonna be expanding in up and and down direction, its going to be expanding in EVERY direction equally at the point CLOSE to the exposure. So we are going to end up with a major deformation of one concrete plate at most. So unless there was fire on every single floor, what happened to the steel pillars from the lower and the very top levels? Why would they all collapse simultaneously PURELY from "pancake" effect at the speed of free fall?

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FACT: Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin, according to David Biggs, a structural engineer at Ryan-Biggs Associates and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that worked on the FEMA report.

Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air — along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse — was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception."

Demolition expert Romero regrets that his comments to the Albuquerque Journal became fodder for conspiracy theorists. "I was misquoted in saying that I thought it was explosives that brought down the building," he tells PM. "I only said that that's what it looked like."

Romero, who agrees with the scientific conclusion that fire triggered the collapses, demanded a retraction from the Journal. It was printed Sept. 22, 2001. "I felt like my scientific reputation was on the line." But emperors-clothes.com saw something else: "The paymaster of Romero's research institute is the Pentagon. Directly or indirectly, pressure was brought to bear, forcing Romero to retract his original statement." Romero responds: "Conspiracy theorists came out saying that the government got to me. That is the farthest thing from the truth. This has been an albatross around my neck for three years."

Claim: The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."

FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.

The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel — and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."

Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...42.html?page=4

[corsakh]

You did not answer:

So what about the pillars? Floors can pancake. Pillars can't - they are vertically aligned for Christ sake. Or are you saying that in both towers jet fuel found its way to the pillars, dripped all the way down to the ground through these pillars, caught a fire, compromised the metal structure and led to a collapse. Fine! Unless you can show me fuel could travel up the building, where are the freaking pillars from the top floor?!

Where Are The Pillars?!

[corsakh]

Dont bother, here they are [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]



Ye, jet fuel [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Here is a closer pic.

How could fire turn this



into this

[BuddyQ]

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You did not answer:

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I'm done answering you weirdos.
PS, did you hear the moon landings were faked?

[hra146]

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What caused the third building to fall?

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Fire. There was fire in two floors and minutes after the whole building collapsed at freefall speed without damaging anything that was around.


Sounds reasonable doesnt it?


ediiiit:


I dont know what happened at 911 but I ask myself what people who believe the government story are thinking. Conspiracy theories all together are about twice as reasonable what the government says. Cause people can actually disprove it. What others makes then say "CTs are stupid, you suck, go die" is because those theories cant actually PROVE different scenarios. And there is no way they ever will.

Its like atheists vs. believers. Both are stupid, but they dont realize it.

All that we can know is that there is a high chance that the government ommitted and skewed several things in the official report. Possibly outright lied.

We also know that they are withholding evidence that would prove one truth or another.


So there is SOMETHING wrong. And I dont get how people just dont ask about these things.