What is good about faith?

[Silent A]

For Krusty's sake, do you guys have to quote every single post every damn time?

[foal]

Brad I don't know why you posted in this thread since you seem so averse to debate "its like trying to teach a pig to talk", "nothing you say is going to change anything" (paraphrasing). This clearly isn't going anywhere though.
Fin.

[tpir]

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If you ask the owner of the Philadelphia Eagles which team is the best pro football team is he gonna say the Dallas Cowboys? Chances are no, he's not. So why ask me that question???

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Before I respond, is this supposed to be a serious analogy?

[Brad1970]

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Brad I don't know why you posted in this thread since you seem so averse to debate "its like trying to teach a pig to talk", "nothing you say is going to change anything" (paraphrasing). This clearly isn't going anywhere though.
Fin.

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I'm not adverse to debate at all. All I have done is post my position. Some people in this thread are too busy trying to split hairs over everything I post.

For the record I never said that the act of drinking alcohol would give you a one way ticket to hell. I simply said that the Bible doesn't clearly state a yes or no answer. Same with drugs. I am not pointing a finger at any particular person or group of persons for doing so. Many believe it still is immoral because you are descreating the body God gave you. Same could be said for coffee & coca cola.

Sex with prostitues is alittle more clearly defined. The Bible calls then whoremongers but the idea is the same.

[Brad1970]

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If you would have bothered to post & understand the last part of my original post you might understand that you just proved my point for me. I hate to say it, but every Sunday the churches have some "members" who have not committed their lives to Christ.

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that doesn't mean they're not Christians and it certainly doesn't mean they're atheists.

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You, like most non-christians are confusing belief & behavior. Just because their butt is sitting in the church pew on Sunday morning does not ensure they will ever see Heaven. So, in essence, they are the same as an Atheist. Without confessing & believing in Jesus Christ, both will wind up in the same place.

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So are Muslims now atheists too?

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I don't know much about Muslims so it is hard for me to say. I really don't know what they believe.

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lol when you consider your previous comment

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Jesus said "seek & you shall find, knock & the door shall be opened for you". If you're not seeking Him then it is easy to say he doesn't exist or that religion is silly.

But the truth of the matter is that there are alot of people in the world who are on a one way path to eternal destruction because they are too proud to seek Jesus.


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maybe you should seek Allah before you tell others to seek Jesus

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Why is that funny? I really don't know much about Muslims. They aren't Christians. You do realize that they aren't Christians, don't you. These are two separate religions. I didn't specifically say that...I assumed all of the nits...I mean intelligent people...on this forum knew the difference.

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huh?...they actually do believe Jesus to be a prophet, but I wouldn't call them Christians..where did you even get that from?

it is funny because you seem think that people should be seeking the god of your religion...yet you haven't made an attempt to seek the god of another religion...

is Christianity to only religion worth looking into? on what basis would a person of no religion make the decision of what religion to look into?

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Yes, Chrisitanity is the only religion worth looking into.

If you ask the owner of the Philadelphia Eagles which team is the best pro football team is he gonna say the Dallas Cowboys? Chances are no, he's not. So why ask me that question???

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err..and I should just trust you? what if a Muslim tells me that Islam is the only religion worth looking into? Should I trust him?

you might as well just spin a wheel when you are a young child to decide what your religion will be...it sounds absurd but that is precisely what happens...but the element of chance is simply what religion you are brought up in.

BTW, I'm still waiting for an explanation of "why sex with postitutes, drugs, drinking, etc is immoral"

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I'm not even gonna dignify that with a response...

Look believe whatever you like. Obviously you're not listening to anything I say but someday you'll admit I was right.

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when someone says that they won't dignify a question with a response...it seems to nearly always be because they can't support their position.

You can't support your position, so you dismiss the question...quite the cowardly act.

you are not fooling anyone

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No it's not cowardly as you say. I chose not to answer because that is a really stupid question. Why should I make an effort to tell you why it is immoral to do some of the things that most people on this planet know are immoral to begin with.

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because you made the claim?

it is not a stupid question at all...

and evidently, it is not so obvious...if it was, you could easily support your claim.

tell yourself whatever you like, but deep down you know that theonly reason you won't give me a response is that you don't have one.

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Ok I'll give you a response. Those things are sinful that's why it's immoral. How's that. Happy now.

But you'll respond by saying something like, "Well I'm an atheist, so your rules don't apply to me. So I get to snort all the coke & sleep with all the strippers I want to." Your response may be a little more 'eloquent' since you're so much smarter than "us po dumb church goin' folk" but the jest will be the same.

So that's why it's nothing more than a silly question. We'll keep going round-n-round all day like a dog chasing it's tail...I'm on one side, you're on the other. You can come up with all the arguments in the world & it's not gonna change anything. At least I don't see it changing!!!

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first of all, stop with the comments like, "Your response may be a little more 'eloquent' since you're so much smarter than 'us po dumb church goin' folk'"...I didn't say anything disrespectful like that..and I don't know why you assume that I, or any atheist, would.

your response is what I expected...I just wanted to make the point that "sin" is not based on any type of morality that I support...I try to base my morality on actual suffering...not some arbitrary moral principles that are not related to actual suffering.

I personally do not engage in sex with prostitutes or do any drugs that people typically think of as "drugs" (I comsume drinks with caffiene, for instance)...and I occasionally consume alcohol (probably 6-10 times in the past couple years)...

but I find nothing morally wrong with any of those acts because the first involves the consentual exchange of a service for money, and the other two involve only the consent of the person engagin in the act. (again, some things related to these things I find immoral..endangering others, etc.)

evidently you derive your morality from the Bible..it doesn't matter what it says..you don't have to think about the actual effects of these supposed sins...you just follow it.

This, I find to be a repulsive morality...and when this is your morality, the notion that morality has anything to do with reality is thrown out the window

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There have been other posts to effect that atheists are of a higher intellect than people of faith...maybe you didn't say it but others have unless I totally misunderstood their intentions. If I offended you, my apologies.

I'm shocked that you find the act of engaging a prostitute morally ok!!!

[Brad1970]

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If you ask the owner of the Philadelphia Eagles which team is the best pro football team is he gonna say the Dallas Cowboys? Chances are no, he's not. So why ask me that question???

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Before I respond, is this supposed to be a serious analogy?

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Simple but serious. So yes.

[Subfallen]

Brad -

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I'm not adverse to debate at all.

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I don't doubt it. The only problem is---you're incapable of debate. On issues related to Christianity, you do not possess the cognitive status of a human being. Rather, in Jung's words, you are a "walking personification" of Fundamentalist dogma. You are not illogical, you are sick. And one cannot refute a sickness.

To paraphrase one more eloquent, "You say that you believe in Christ? But what matters Christ? You are His believers---but what matter all believers? You had not yet sought yourselves; and you found Him. Thus do all believers; therefore all faith amounts to so little. Now I bid you---lose Him and find yourselves."

[foal]

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Brad I don't know why you posted in this thread since you seem so averse to debate "its like trying to teach a pig to talk", "nothing you say is going to change anything" (paraphrasing). This clearly isn't going anywhere though.
Fin.

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I'm not adverse to debate at all. All I have done is post my position. Some people in this thread are too busy trying to split hairs over everything I post.

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Then why make statements implying that debate is pointless? Stating your position repeatedly is not debate and what you call "splitting hairs" many would simply call basic discussion/debate. It's clear to me you are coming at this from an emotional rather than a logical perspective. I'd recommend taking an introductory philosophy class.

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I am not pointing a finger at any particular person or group of persons for doing so.

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[Atheists] are so bogged down in sin & living in worldly ways that they think that's
what makes them happy. For some, that's all they know.
All you have to do is surf thru most of the posts in
NVG or BBV & see how many are about "wow, look at me do
an 8 ball of coke" or "ask me about the strip club" or
"guess how many beers I can drink" or "should I screw
this hooker".


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Atheists are a group of persons..

[Atrophy]

Brad,

Atheists simply lack a belief in a god or gods. They may not even actively refute their existence. George H. Smith argued that infants are atheists because they do not yet have the capacity to grasp the concept of a higher power. "Infants are atheists!?" many will say. "That is such a horrible thing to say about a tiny innocent creature!"

I think such common responses in our society reveal a lot about the misconceptions of the word. You have continually used the word to effect a moral judgment, and that is not right.

[Prodigy54321]

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I'm shocked that you find the act of engaging a prostitute morally ok!!!


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I'll end the quoting marathon for Silent A.

even if you feel that sex is something sacred that should be shared between a man and a woman after marriage and only for the purposes of child bearing...it doesn't matter.

some people, myself included, do not see sex that way.

now, obviously, if I don't find murder to be immoral..that or course doesn't mean that I should be allowed to go around murdering people.

the difference is that murdering entails the violation of an unwilling participant's rights (unless the victim consents...assisted suicide, for instance, is fine with me under the same principles)...but engaging in prostitution concerns only willing participants..

one offers a service, the other purchases it...in order for something to me morally wrong, in my mind, an unwilling person must be coerced in some way...here, no one is coerced..

furthermore, in this situation...it is presumably a win/win...the prostitute would not offer her service if she did not find the money more appealing than not performing the act...and the customer would not purchase the service if he did not find the act more appealing than the money.

prostitute and customer are happy...and even if they regretted their decision...it doesn't matter one bit to me...what matters is that they both consented and did not violate anyone else.

where is the moral dilemma in this situation?...the notion that it is necessarily immoral is indefensible without invoking some abstract morality like that of many theists...it simply cannot be reproduced when we consider actual human suffering and happiness.