Michael Moore's new film: Sicko

[ShakeZula06]

Repeal the laws pushed by the AMA which have raised prices and lowered quality.
100 years of medical robbery
Real medical freedom
How Government Solved the Health Care Crisis: Medical Insurance that Worked — Until Government "Fixed" It

[Taraz]

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Repeal the laws pushed by the AMA which have raised prices and lowered quality.
100 years of medical robbery
Real medical freedom
How Government Solved the Health Care Crisis: Medical Insurance that Worked — Until Government "Fixed" It

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I'm already very in favor of that. Edit: I mean in favor of lowering bloated health costs forced by the AMA. I haven't read these links, so I don't want to give the impression that I'm in favor of whatever they say.

I think a big reason why a national health care plan is attractive to me is because our system is so corrupt and messed up. It's seems like in order to get anything positive you have to work within the system. I hate it, it sucks, but it seems true. I realize that such a system is problematic, but I think good health for all our citizens is that important.

This is one of the reasons I don't find AC attractive. Stripping away only a few government programs could easily do more harm than good because there would be other regulations in place messing up the "free market". It seems like it would be much more effective to try get our government to work for positive change because it is more likely to happen.

[pvn]

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I think a big reason why a national health care plan is attractive to me is because our system is so corrupt and messed up.

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And how do you think adding more corruption and more "messed up" stuff is going to improve anything?

[adios]

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I think a big reason why a national health care plan is attractive to me is because our system is so corrupt and messed up.

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And how do you think adding more corruption and more "messed up" stuff is going to improve anything?

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Many would claim and I think they have a good case that the U.S. health system is the way it is due to government intervention namely medicare/medicaid. I think the case is fairly clear that medicare/medicaid have a great influence on the prices of health care in the U.S. Seems like a case for moving away government intervention rather than having more of it.

[Taraz]

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I think a big reason why a national health care plan is attractive to me is because our system is so corrupt and messed up.

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And how do you think adding more corruption and more "messed up" stuff is going to improve anything?

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Read the next sentence of my post.

I think this issue is important enough that I'm willing to deal with politicians skimming off the top if it means that people who need health care get it. It seems like the most likely solution in the short term.

[APT]

I do not like the US health system because I am self-employed and kicked out from individual health insurance due to the pre-condition.
But I understand that it is impossible for the government to provide affordable health care for everyone without spending tax money.It does come to the point that raise tax and take care of health care or keep tax unchanged and leave uninsured behind.

Japan has a national health insurance and all the people in Japan can get affordable medical care.Some part of this owed
to the doctors and the staffs in the hospital who work with low salary.Can you believe that some doctors who work for the hospital get only about $70,000 annually?The business men who work for the big companies can get more easily.
But Most part of this owed to tax money.Health care system in Japan keeps accumulating huge deficit year after year.
Tax money covers the deficit.Japanese fiscal deficit is so huge and in the dangerous zone already.
They spend money irresponsible and put the burden for the future generations.

[pvn]

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I think a big reason why a national health care plan is attractive to me is because our system is so corrupt and messed up.

[/ QUOTE ]

And how do you think adding more corruption and more "messed up" stuff is going to improve anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the next sentence of my post.

I think this issue is important enough that I'm willing to deal with politicians skimming off the top if it means that people who need health care get it. It seems like the most likely solution in the short term.

[/ QUOTE ]

So when you said "a national health care plan is attractive to me is because our system is so corrupt and messed up" you actually meant the corruption is attractive? Not that you thought national health care would actually reduce corruption?

[Taraz]

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I think a big reason why a national health care plan is attractive to me is because our system is so corrupt and messed up.

[/ QUOTE ]

And how do you think adding more corruption and more "messed up" stuff is going to improve anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the next sentence of my post.

I think this issue is important enough that I'm willing to deal with politicians skimming off the top if it means that people who need health care get it. It seems like the most likely solution in the short term.

[/ QUOTE ]

So when you said "a national health care plan is attractive to me is because our system is so corrupt and messed up" you actually meant the corruption is attractive? Not that you thought national health care would actually reduce corruption?

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No, I'm saying universal health care provided by corrupt politicians is better than our current state. In my personal cost-benefit analysis, the benefit of universal health care outweighs the cost of an inefficient system.

[pvn]

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No, I'm saying universal health care provided by corrupt politicians is better than our current state. In my personal cost-benefit analysis, the benefit of universal health care outweighs the cost of an inefficient system.

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Ah ok. Well, suppose that the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost in *my* cost-benefit analysis. Why is yours better? They're both based upon our own subjective personal preferences. So why should I have to help you buy what you want?

[Taraz]

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No, I'm saying universal health care provided by corrupt politicians is better than our current state. In my personal cost-benefit analysis, the benefit of universal health care outweighs the cost of an inefficient system.

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Ah ok. Well, suppose that the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost in *my* cost-benefit analysis. Why is yours better? They're both based upon our own subjective personal preferences. So why should I have to help you buy what you want?

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You're welcome to vote differently [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I don't like a lot of stuff that the government does with my taxes. I don't think it's possible to agree with every action your government takes if you're educated at all, so I don't think it makes that much sense to ask why I should pay taxes for some service I don't want/like.

I think that this point may be where I'm differing from a lot of people here. I think maybe we just place different values on a healthy population and the taxes we have to pay. If that's the case, maybe we can't really come to an agreement.

I'm still curious about all the alternatives to the current health care situation though. I'm sure I don't know the whole of it.