Ask the Lounge About Men

[SoloAJ]

Thanks all for the wishes. All downhill from here I hear [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

katy,
I've been on a pretty big trip about this since the weather started warming up. The nice weather reminded me that instead of getting to see females in sundresses or flare skirts, I just get to see short cutoff jean skirts and ridiculously slutty tops. I'm not saying that is ALL bad, but it does make me sad a little bit that that is ALL I will be seeing.

Bring back good clothing, damnit.


And all,
I will let you know how many of them I think I could take after I have a better idea of how scrappy these particular students look.

[katyseagull]

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Fashion choices should never be blamed on men. If you want to wear it, take the credit and blame at the same time. No Patriarchal conspiracy is making you wear high heels.


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I want to blame the men for some of my fashion choices [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I think we can at least blame them for the teeny tiny t-shirt, can't we?


I heard a conversation at work yesterday. It went like this.

Guy: Women are so phony! Look at all that fake [censored] you do... dying your hair, makeup, boob jobs. You curl it, stuff it, lift it, dye it, try to squeeze into it. How much more phony can you get?

Girl: Well we do it for you. Men want us to look a certain way. Face it, women wouldn't do this stuff if men didn't ask us to.

So really Blarg, we are just trying to make you happy when we wear high heels and that's probably why we complain to you about them hurting. Because, you know, we kind of think it's you're fault [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[MrWookie]

Katy,

You miss some of the earlier comments in here? A lot of the stuff you curl, stuff, dye, squeeze, powder, color, or whatever men don't always like. We even get harped on for not noticing many of the things you do to look "pretty." Sometimes that means you're doing whatever it is well, and sometimes it means it's just irrelevant. I think other women are a good chunk of your problem here. They're the ones most likely to both notice that you didn't do something from that list, AND they're the ones most likely to snip about it. Many men will see the forest for the forest and comment about whether the overall picture looks good, not about the absence of some detail. I've long believed that women do a lot of their gussying up to impress other women, not to impress men. Men are easy to impress. If the whole package looks appealing, and if its presented in a manner appealing to our sensibilities (i.e., where on the slutty scale do we want her), she's golden. Whether or not she wears mascara will not make or break anyone. It will, however, provide ammo for jealous girls who wish it was them that prince charming chose.

[MrWookie]

As far as high heels goes, shoes used to be one of the last things I noticed about a girl, but since I started dancing, they've gone way, way up. If I'm at a dance and looking around for a girl to ask, but I don't see anyone I know to be a good dancer, I'll start looking at shoes. My thoughts go kinda like this:

1. If the girl is out in stupid heels, ones that no person can realistically dance in, she doesn't get asked. It's almost certainly her first time out. She'll learn not to wear these next time. I like the look of these heels when going out, but I don't trust girls wearing them not to break their own ankles when dancing.
2. If the girl is out in running shoes, she's also probably not going to be asked to dance. This is obviously her SECOND time out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].
3. If she's out in black and white wingtips or saddle shoes, she's also probably out for the first time, usually with a group of her girlfriends and a few reluctant boyfriends.
4. So what do I go for? Mostly flats. The little white Keds go well; classic Converse sneakers are popular too. These aren't as clunky as running shoes, and a lot of good dancers have shoemakers put suede on the bottom. Some girls will wear certain kinds of men's dress/dance shoes, too.
5. Every now and then you'll see a girl in heels that aren't stupid, but instead are made for dancing. She's almost certainly a badass.

[Blarg]

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[ QUOTE ]
Fashion choices should never be blamed on men. If you want to wear it, take the credit and blame at the same time. No Patriarchal conspiracy is making you wear high heels.


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I want to blame the men for some of my fashion choices [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I think we can at least blame them for the teeny tiny t-shirt, can't we?


I heard a conversation at work yesterday. It went like this.

Guy: Women are so phony! Look at all that fake [censored] you do... dying your hair, makeup, boob jobs. You curl it, stuff it, lift it, dye it, try to squeeze into it. How much more phony can you get?

Girl: Well we do it for you. Men want us to look a certain way. Face it, women wouldn't do this stuff if men didn't ask us to.

So really Blarg, we are just trying to make you happy when we wear high heels and that's probably why we complain to you about them hurting. Because, you know, we kind of think it's you're fault [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Bullsh*t. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Women are terrifically, often viciously competitive with each other and judgmental toward each other and each other's looks and presentation. How would you lord it over each other if some of you didn't get more attention from men than others, or didn't dress to point out to other women that you look better than they do or are more desireable, hip, or socially acceptable than they are?

There could be no men around for a thousand years(I think some libbers would like that!) and women would still be trying to outdress each other each and every way they could. Hell, without men around, it would probably settle to its natural level by devolving into fistfights.

[entertainme]

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Katy,

You miss some of the earlier comments in here? A lot of the stuff you curl, stuff, dye, squeeze, powder, color, or whatever men don't always like. We even get harped on for not noticing many of the things you do to look "pretty." Sometimes that means you're doing whatever it is well, and sometimes it means it's just irrelevant. I think other women are a good chunk of your problem here. They're the ones most likely to both notice that you didn't do something from that list, AND they're the ones most likely to snip about it. Many men will see the forest for the forest and comment about whether the overall picture looks good, not about the absence of some detail. I've long believed that women do a lot of their gussying up to impress other women, not to impress men. Men are easy to impress. If the whole package looks appealing, and if its presented in a manner appealing to our sensibilities (i.e., where on the slutty scale do we want her), she's golden. Whether or not she wears mascara will not make or break anyone. It will, however, provide ammo for jealous girls who wish it was them that prince charming chose.

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I agree that women often do it for themselves.

When we were first dating my husband complained about the time I took with make-up, hair, etc. It really wasn't that important to him. (Of course, it really depends on the guy you're with too. For some it's important to have a trophy on their arm.)

It wasn't until after we had kids that I became more comfortable leaving the house w/o make-up, etc. Now I will usually only wear it if I go out for work, (not often since I work at home), or for social events. Going to the grocery store or dinner with just the family = no make-up. Meeting others for dinner = I'll might put some on.

My daughter caught on much earlier than me. She never wears make-up, had to borrow some from me for prom.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Katy,

You miss some of the earlier comments in here? A lot of the stuff you curl, stuff, dye, squeeze, powder, color, or whatever men don't always like. We even get harped on for not noticing many of the things you do to look "pretty." Sometimes that means you're doing whatever it is well, and sometimes it means it's just irrelevant. I think other women are a good chunk of your problem here. They're the ones most likely to both notice that you didn't do something from that list, AND they're the ones most likely to snip about it. Many men will see the forest for the forest and comment about whether the overall picture looks good, not about the absence of some detail. I've long believed that women do a lot of their gussying up to impress other women, not to impress men. Men are easy to impress. If the whole package looks appealing, and if its presented in a manner appealing to our sensibilities (i.e., where on the slutty scale do we want her), she's golden. Whether or not she wears mascara will not make or break anyone. It will, however, provide ammo for jealous girls who wish it was them that prince charming chose.

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Awesome post.

Men often don't even like the fashion/make-up stuff women do. Crunchy hairstyles that just look bizarre, that smell like a chemical plant, and that we're forbidden to touch anyway; nails that look ludicrous; heels you can't walk in and that make you look like a clown; yucky, unnaturally colored eye make-up and absurd looking foot-long eyelashes; glitter; retarded looking glasses that must be miserable to try to see through -- tons of women lap this stuff up and are near crazed in their acquisition of yet more weird bits of fashion, and convinced of their value with a fervor approaching the religious.

Make-up and fashion can easily become ends in themselves; they probably are exactly that far more often than they are used to supposedly attract men. Hell, a lot of women, even actively dating, don't even seem to like men very much.

Listen to men talk about women's fashion and make-up and they'll often say, she can be attractive in just jeans and a t-shirt. What they're saying is that less is more, and that it's other things they're attracted to than the weird universe of make-up and fashion that women create for themselves. Importantly, to look good in jeans and a t-shirt, you have to actually LOOK GOOD; you can't just fake it. Men aren't into the elaborate fakery, by and large.

Compare to how women often try to look good: eat as much as they want, skimp on the exercise, and pile on the make-up and think fashion matters. It doesn't. Stop snacking on crap all the time and wash your face and you'll be WAY better off in every way possible.

It's just a lazy cheat to ascribe a desire to fiddle and fuss over yourselves, to spend tons of time and wasted money on trivialities, and to try to cheat reality on your own, to being "forced" to do it by men. That argument is a total joke. Why do people do things? BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.

[Borodog]

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heels

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glitter

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Let's not get crazy now.

[Blarg]

Not a big fan of either just because they seem retarded, not because they look bad, but they aren't in anywhere near the same class of dopiness as green eyeshadow.

[Borodog]

I am fascinated by boobs and sparkly objects. Sparkly boobs are positively mesmerizing.

And high heels do their job, which is to tighten the lines of the muscles in the leg.