|
|
#101
05-03-2007, 11:18 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: It\'s a shame about my street
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Who do you think owns the property? [/ QUOTE ] Ultimately, the people of the United States. [/ QUOTE ] Damn, that's a relief. I'll just forward my tax bill to "the people". [ QUOTE ] Admittedly, the US acquired some territory through dubious means, but if the US Govt's claim is illegitimate, then your claim based on a deed which ultimately falls under the jurisdiction of the US govt and granted through transactions made within the US govt's legal system, is also illegitimate. [/ QUOTE ] A particular chain of title might be tainted, but that doesn't show that the current "owner" is illegitimate. If the US "backs" these claims, why do I need to get title insurance in order to get a mortgage? Shouldn't the backing of the government be enough??? 
|
|
#103
05-03-2007, 11:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: It\'s a shame about my street
[ QUOTE ]
Kaj, What about land that the federal government actually sold to individuals or granted to individuals? What about land acquired by individuals, from the government, through the Homestead Act? Wouldn't the goverment have relinquished its deed in these cases? [/ QUOTE ] The easiest answer to this is: Did the map change? When Jefferson made the Lousiana Purchase, it sure did. The govt never ceded its territory to these individuals in this sense. It gave them use of the land to use as they see fit -- in essence, they "owned" the right to use the land, but did not own the land itself in a sovereign sense. [ QUOTE ] I suspect there are two things being discussed here, and they may be getting somewhat confused: one is an argument about ownership, and the other is an argument about jurisdiction. The two are not entirely synonymous, although certain aspects may overlap in some ways. [/ QUOTE ] I'd argue they are synonymous. How can you "own" something if you don't have sovereign use of it? Either you own your land and are free to use it in any way -- including mind your own business and not let any govt agent (i.e., tax collector) on it -- or you don't really own it fully, but are owning the right to use it so long as you abide by the "charter".
|
|
#104
05-03-2007, 11:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: It\'s a shame about my street
[ QUOTE ]
1. I'm not skidoo nor are my politics remotely close to his. Please stop trying to slander me through these slurs. [/ QUOTE ] You may or may not be Skidoo. Your posts are beginning to resemble his. [ QUOTE ] 2. I never said no one but the govt owns land. I already said if you want to own your land, have it ceded from the people who already have a joint claim to it. [/ QUOTE ] What's the difference between a claim and ownership? [ QUOTE ] last I checked, your territory belongs to the United States of America, i.e., the people of the USA. [/ QUOTE ] In other words, they own it? Also, lol at the government and the people being synonomous. [ QUOTE ] 3. I don't care that most disagree with me. Becomes sad when the ACists resort to popularity contest. [/ QUOTE ] Not a popularity contest at all. Just saying I'lll be happy with the fact that only a very small fringe of people could possibly be so close minded as to think my land belongs to the government, that's all.
|
|
#105
05-03-2007, 11:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: It\'s a shame about my street
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Second, how in the world are you going to call military conquest part of legitimately owning property? If I kill my nieghbor and declare his land mine, is it legitimately mine? Why or why not? [/ QUOTE ] Okay, then it isn't the US govt's. And therefore your deed administered by the US govt under the laws of the US govt and upheld by the courts of the US govt is worthless. So your claim is just as illegitimate. I'd love to start giving back territory to Native Americans, but as pvn himself would agree, they are all dead now and we can't go back to find original "owners". You either accept the US legitimacy, or deny your own legitimacy. [/ QUOTE ] False dichotomy 101.
|
|
#106
05-03-2007, 11:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: It\'s a shame about my street
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Skidoo, [/ QUOTE ] Brilliant. How come I didn't figure it out sooner? Gold star, detective. [/ QUOTE ] Is this true? [/ QUOTE ] He's denying it, but that really doesn't mean anything being that Skidoo and Sharkey always denyed being the other when it was humorously obvious they were. Skidoo always emphasised that "the people" acted as the US government, and that "the people own the land and use the government to act" etc. I finding the same thing in a lot of Kaj posts. It doesn't help "Kaj" that ever since he's registered people have been suspicious that he was someone's gimmick account. My money's on Skidoo/Sharkey.
|
|
#107
05-03-2007, 11:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: It\'s a shame about my street
[ QUOTE ]
I never said no one but the govt owns land. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'd argue [jurisciction and ownership is] synonymous. How can you "own" something if you don't have sovereign use of it? [/ QUOTE ] err, yeah.
|
|
#108
05-03-2007, 11:27 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: It\'s a shame about my street
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] your territory still belongs to the USA. [/ QUOTE ] It does not *own* my land. It attampts to exert jurisdiction over it. By the way, you do realize that there are maps showing who's property belongs to who, right? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, and they all fall under USA, don't they? It doesn't "attempt" jurisdiction, it has full jurisdiction. Are you suggesting you live in a soveriegn nation apart from the USA? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And whether you want to admit it or not, the govt is a form of govt formed of the people and administered by the people. [/ QUOTE ] Lol OK. If you say so. Keep buying into that if you want. [/ QUOTE ] This is not an argument. I don't like the current state of the govt, not the federal govt at all really. I also hate McDonalds and its corporate board. But I don't pretend to believe that neither exist. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I fail to see any point your making except waving your hands -- "ZOMG! Govts are bad" is not a counterargument to this ownership issue [/ QUOTE ] Yes, because my arguments are just filled with "ZOMG! Govts are bad". [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, actually that about sums it up. [ QUOTE ] Sorry, just because you say governments owns land doesn't make it true. [/ QUOTE ] Then show me your basis for sovereign ownership. [ QUOTE ] It's a claim the government doesn't even make. [/ QUOTE ] Really? Then pass your own laws over the land you "own" that contradict the govt's laws and see if you really own it. [ QUOTE ] Maps are for jurisdictions. It doesn't mean you own it. [/ QUOTE ] How can something have jurisdiction over something it doesn't own? How can an outside entity tell you what the rules are on your land that is individually owned apart from the rest of the nation's territory and nobody else has any claim to whatsoever. [ QUOTE ] You should have learned this in highschool. [/ QUOTE ] I was taught a lot of stuff in high school that was based on false premises. Didn't you?
|
|
#110
05-03-2007, 11:30 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: It\'s a shame about my street
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [quoteOnce again, governments cannot legitimately own things because the things they acquire are paid with stolen money. [/ QUOTE ] LMAO. [/ QUOTE ] Are ever going to: 1) figure out how to use the quote button? 2) Actually argue a position rather than just "LMAO" (&c)? [/ QUOTE ] If someone actually made a cogent argument instead of playing semantic games or "taxes are theft" then there might be something to respond to. Hasnt happened yet in this thread as kaj has also pointed out.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
