*Official* Party STRUCTURE changes thread - Page 11

FlyWf · #**101** 02-17-2006, 12:00 AM

So how exactly does someone outplay people postflop with 15 BB? Are you getting away from TPGK or something?

_50_ BBs is shortstack NL.

ilya · #**102** 02-17-2006, 12:03 AM

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Let me say that I love the new structure, and I love the new 77 level. You guys that don't know how to accumulate chips without pushbotting are in for some trouble.

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The differences are pretty small and if this is anyones idea of postflop heaven they are deluded.

Might clarify. The stages of a SnG that has gotten longer with this structure is the pushbot stages. The early levels are pretty much unchanged.

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No. The stages that have gotten longer are the short handed stages in which the average stack is in the neighborhood of 15-20 bb. In the old structure, this was where the good tournament player had a huge edge over the pushbots who characteristically played too tight in an effort to conserve chips for when they had to move all in. This stage puts an emphasis on position, postflop play, and pot control. All of which are elements that most push bots don't have in their game.

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And the pushbotters get a full ten minutes of 200/400, 300/600 etc. It works both ways.

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Definitely. The later levels are great for good players. And that includes good pushbotters. The difference, without question, in my opinion, is less lower level hands to try and get good early double ups.

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Actually I think I'm getting in more than 10 hands per round even in the early levels.

AtlBrvs4Life · #**103** 02-17-2006, 12:04 AM

One major difference I just realized. Multitabling is going to be much more difficult because you actually need to put a little thought into heads up play. Before it was just all-in/fold until you win/lose.

Python49 · #**104** 02-17-2006, 12:09 AM

Ok I just did a set of 5. Some of my observations:

I felt like I saw alot less hands than I usually do before its time to panic. The 10min blinds go by fast in the beginning because you are tight anyway, but when you are in the money, you see ALOT more hands. This emphasizes alot more actual POKER being played. I have no problem at all with this and actually had a great set, it's just that the one gripe I had was the fact that when being ITM at 4 at a time with hands going around so fast... it feels alot more hectic. I can't imagine having to do that when ITM in 5 or 6 at the same time. Since you arent just pushing all in or folding you have to use reads and actually PLAY poker, and at 4 tables at a time this was much harder.

Push botters and 10 tablers I could see really struggling with this. The structure basically imo has made it more of a crap shoot early on to mid-late game and if you make it to a big stack, more of a skill game. But I definitely felt that I didn't see nearly as many hands as usual before blinds got big. I don't know... not really liking it so far. Feels like cash games on crack where you can't afford to fold because the blinds are not small at all.

ChoicestHops · #**105** 02-17-2006, 12:10 AM

Im having difficulty adjusting to the fact that there are more than ten hands to a level.

I guess I have to go learn poker again.

johnnybeef · #**106** 02-17-2006, 12:11 AM

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So how exactly does someone outplay people postflop with 15 BB? Are you getting away from TPGK or something?

_50_ BBs is shortstack NL.

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Yes, but 20 bb enables you to play a few flops. Or in other words, open limp in lp occassionally, or maybe raise to 2.5 bb instead of 3. You know, simple pot control, or do you?

johnnybeef · #**107** 02-17-2006, 12:14 AM

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Let me say that I love the new structure, and I love the new 77 level. You guys that don't know how to accumulate chips without pushbotting are in for some trouble.

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The differences are pretty small and if this is anyones idea of postflop heaven they are deluded.

Might clarify. The stages of a SnG that has gotten longer with this structure is the pushbot stages. The early levels are pretty much unchanged.

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No. The stages that have gotten longer are the short handed stages in which the average stack is in the neighborhood of 15-20 bb. In the old structure, this was where the good tournament player had a huge edge over the pushbots who characteristically played too tight in an effort to conserve chips for when they had to move all in. This stage puts an emphasis on position, postflop play, and pot control. All of which are elements that most push bots don't have in their game.

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And the pushbotters get a full ten minutes of 200/400, 300/600 etc. It works both ways.

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Not when those exceptional postflop players call with 74s.

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It was 47o jackass. I find it funny that I have gotten ridiculed by so many people here except for the upper limit players who have all used this play at one point or another in their careers.

Gobgogbog · #**108** 02-17-2006, 12:22 AM

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I find it funny that I have gotten ridiculed by so many people here except for the upper limit players who have all used this play at one point or another in their careers.

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Gee, Wilbur, the other people who have made the play didn't ridicule you?

Huggles,
Gobgogbog

FlyWf · #**109** 02-17-2006, 12:24 AM

So your critique is that "pushbots" can't play postflop because they aren't openlimping in LP and are raising .5 of a BB too much PF? Pot control and awareness of position are valuable skills for a SNG player(and are in the 2+2 pushbot playbook), but neither of those are postflop poker skills like putting someone on a range such that you can fold a good hand or bet someone off a better one.
Time based is better for "pushbots". The <12BB effective stack blinds levels include more hands than the >12BB effective stack levels.
The slower ones do allow more postflop play than the 800 chippers(20 minutes of plausible outplaying opportunities rather than like 12).

pr0crast · #**110** 02-17-2006, 12:27 AM

I haven't read this thread yet, but I think the #1 hyooooogest difference of this blind structure is going to turn out to be HU play. With 10 minute levels, and level 5 at only 200/400, you are in for some long HU battles, with push/fold situations not coming into play for quite awhile. Theoretically this is GREAT for us. Although the games last longer, we should have a heavier distribution of 1sts.