Questions for atheists

[Piers]

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So you decided that the only logical explaination for the existence of the universe is that it came about by natural means, or some other method that doesn't involve a supreme being...now what?

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Whatever you want.

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and why does this really matter if true?

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Probably doesn’t matter much.

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Why is seeking truth so important to you?

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I like the mental stimulation I get from understanding new patterns.

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So you "figured out" the universe....is this impressive/fulfilling/something else?

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Eh? What? More like decided that the universe cannot be figured out. It’s more the religious type that have a need to ‘figure out the universe’, so invent a meaning for it.

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Further more, does absolute truth even matter if there is no God?

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I don’t think absolute truth is obtainable for us, so whether it matters or not seems irrelevant.

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if there is no God? Isn't your life meaningless now?

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We construct our own meanings for our lives; some people find this easier with a fantasized god figure.

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If it is meaningless, does that matter, or not really?

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Believing your life is meaningless is sign of mental ill health.

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As an atheist, why do you think life wants to survive?

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It’s an evolved trait. Life forms that want to survive tend to find it easier to survive.

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Why does life deny the apparent truth that there is no reason for it to exist?

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It’s an evolved trait. Life forms that believe they have a purpose or reason to exist, find it easier to work towards that purpose, which typically results in increasing the chance the life forms genes will be passed on.

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Furthermore, if there is no "reason" then why are things like reason and meaning so important to people?

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Purpose and meaning are artificial human concepts that our mind uses to understand our environment. Just because they are tools that only exist within our minds does not make them less important to us.

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I don't get it.

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It might well be best if you didn’t.

[Woolygimp]

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So you "figured out" the universe....is this impressive/fulfilling/something else?

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Eh? What? More like decided that the universe cannot be figured out. It’s more the religious type that have a need to ‘figure out the universe’, so invent a meaning for it.


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He didn't figure out anything, it's his belief that there is no God and that does not make it fact. One cannot say, "the Universe can not be figured out" and then assert that there is no God.

Believing our lives are meaningless, as an Atheist, is not a sign of ill mental health but only recognition of that which you hold true. Literally speaking your life has about as much meaning as the mosquito I just swatted off my wall, because you are by nature insignificant. Your imprint upon the universe will be corroded by the infinity of time, fading out into oblivion.

[PairTheBoard]

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So you "figured out" the universe....is this impressive/fulfilling/something else?

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Eh? What? More like decided that the universe cannot be figured out. It’s more the religious type that have a need to ‘figure out the universe’, so invent a meaning for it.


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He didn't figure out anything, it's his belief that there is no God and that does not make it fact. One cannot say, "the Universe can not be figured out" and then assert that there is no God.

Believing our lives are meaningless, as an Atheist, is not a sign of ill mental health but only recognition of that which you hold true. Literally speaking your life has about as much meaning as the mosquito I just swatted off my wall, because you are by nature insignificant. Your imprint upon the universe will be corroded by the infinity of time, fading out into oblivion.

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You're not listening wooly. They say it's NOW that matters. In fact you could be a Theist and say the same thing. You just disagree. Continuing to reasert your rant is not an argument.

PairTheBoard

[Alex-db]

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So you "figured out" the universe....is this impressive/fulfilling/something else?

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Eh? What? More like decided that the universe cannot be figured out. It’s more the religious type that have a need to ‘figure out the universe’, so invent a meaning for it.


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He didn't figure out anything, it's his belief that there is no God and that does not make it fact. One cannot say, "the Universe can not be figured out" and then assert that there is no God.

Believing our lives are meaningless, as an Atheist, is not a sign of ill mental health but only recognition of that which you hold true. Literally speaking your life has about as much meaning as the mosquito I just swatted off my wall, because you are by nature insignificant. Your imprint upon the universe will be corroded by the infinity of time, fading out into oblivion.

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Have you considered that the most intelligent analysis of our current knowledge about the universe is that this describes your life just as well as anyone elses.

If we are right, are you arguing that denial makes it more meaningful?

[Hoi Polloi]

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Purpose and meaning are artificial human concepts that our mind uses to understand our environment or, in the case of theists, to misunderstand our environment.

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FYP


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It might well be best if you didn’t.

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NH

[Hopey]

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Literally speaking your life has about as much meaning as the mosquito I just swatted off my wall, because you are by nature insignificant. Your imprint upon the universe will be corroded by the infinity of time, fading out into oblivion.


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This is logically false.

If you are right and the atheists are wrong, then our lives have as much meaning as yours.

If we are right and you are wrong, then your life is as "meaningless" as ours.

You can't argue that your life has more meaning than an atheists, as you do not *really* know what happens after we die. The fact that you believe that you know the answer doesn't mean that you'll end up somewhere different than the rest of us. However, regardless of the outcome, we're all going to the same place -- either to some form of afterlife or into oblivion. I just happen to think that it'll be into oblivion. I'm willing to be proven wrong, though.

[vhawk01]

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But doesn't this:

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I'm guessing most of you have heard the expression "god of the gaps". The reason we don't have gods of thunder and the harvest and fertility anymore is the same reason we still have a God who's all about concretizing morality and reassuring us in the face of permanent loss. We have God for what we still can't understand.

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...lead straight to the conclusion that you will eventually not need a God?


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Not necessarily. The more we learn about anything, the more we realize we don't know. There will always be things we don't know. This is especially true if you ask questions like, "what happens after we die?"

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I think this is an oft-repeated and seldom-considered cliche, and I don't really know if it actually has any truth. If there is a finite amount of things that need explanations or knowledge out there, then everything we learn brings us closer to the end. If there is an infinite amount, then nothing we learn brings us closer, but it also doesn't increase the amount we don't know. We might realize or illuminate more of the unknown with each new explanation, but this is not necessarily a process that must go on forever.

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I'm going to have to disagree with you on this because although I don't know much about quantum physics I've heard many scientists say that we may <u>never</u> know certain things because such things will be outside of the testable realm.

I remember watching a video about an experiment, and I'm going to try and find it because it's been a while. In the video charged particles were fired, and I'm pretty sure they were electrons however I'm not sure. They were fired through a small hole, and then then patterns were recorded on film behind the hole.

When fired the electrons took on both the properties of typical matter, and wavelengths as it passed through the hole.

So they observed by measuring the matter as it passed through the slits, but when that happened the particles only took on the property of matter and formed two bands, and the pattern of wavelengths were not recorded on the film.

The scientists commented, "It's almost like it can tell when we are observing, so we can't tell why or how it behaves like this but only that it does."

I really need to find it, it was very interesting.

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This isn't disagreeing with me. I never claimed it was possible to know everything, I just took issue with the "Everything we learn just creates more that we DON'T know!" cliche. We're either constantly moving closer to some finite 'end of knowledge' or there is no such end, but that end isn't getting farther away.

[Wubbie075]

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One merely has to look at the map, it's around here somewhere, of the age of consent laws regarding statutory rape. The more liberal states/nations have more relaxed laws, but as you get into the more conservative regions they become stricter.

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This is basically wrong. North Carolina recently (within the last 10 years) RAISED their age of consent from 14 to 16. Surely you are not suggesting that they are more liberal than NY State which has an age of consent of 17.

I've never really looked at the age of consent map/charts and done a comparison of red state vs. blue state, but I would guess that there is likely no correlation. And IF there is, it would probably be the opposite of what you suggest.

[vhawk01]

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One merely has to look at the map, it's around here somewhere, of the age of consent laws regarding statutory rape. The more liberal states/nations have more relaxed laws, but as you get into the more conservative regions they become stricter.

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This is basically wrong. North Carolina recently (within the last 10 years) RAISED their age of consent from 14 to 16. Surely you are not suggesting that they are more liberal than NY State which has an age of consent of 17.

I've never really looked at the age of consent map/charts and done a comparison of red state vs. blue state, but I would guess that there is likely no correlation. And IF there is, it would probably be the opposite of what you suggest.

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Yeah, I have no idea what he was thinking, but he is ludicrously incorrect. There is a ton of variation in global ages of consent, and most in the US vary from only 16-18, so there probably isn't any strong correlation for either sets. But California, for example, has an age of consent of 18, and New York is 17, wheras Kentucky, Georgia, Iowa, and North Carolina are all 16.

Globally, many nations have ages of consent as low as 13 (although none of these are secular nations) but there is wide variance. Australia is one of the more secular countries, and its age of consent is 18. Canada is also 'liberal' and it has confusing (IMO) age of consent laws that put it at 12, 14 or 16 depending on circumstances.

[benjdm]

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So you decided that the only logical explaination for the existence of the universe is that it came about by natural means, or some other method that doesn't involve a supreme being...now what? and why does this really matter if true?

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Stop right there. You are already giving the existence of a 'supreme being' an inherent importance as a question. It isn't so.

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Why is seeking truth so important to you? So you "figured out" the universe....is this impressive/fulfilling/something else? Further more, does absolute truth even matter if there is no God?

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Having an accurate mental model of reality is important because it is a key part of making any decisions. Does red or green mean go at an intersection ? Having a correct belief on the matter is useful in deciding what to do.

All of the 'even if there is no God' questions seem silly to people who have never believed in God. Try it out, see what I mean:

Do numbers mean anything if there is no Great Keno Machine ? Why do you care about the amount of your paycheck or how much your bills are ?

Why would you still be fair and honest if you believe Superman is a fictional character ? Without Superman, there is no Truth, Justice, or American Way.

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Isn't your life meaningless now?

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The existence of a God has no bearing on one's life being meaningless or not. None whatsoever.

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As an atheist, why do you think life wants to survive?

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Because life that wants to survive is generally better at survival and reproduction, probably.