No Chris Simon thread?

[Triumph36]

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going a little off topic here and I'm not trying to compare Simon with Janssen/Kaberle at all. I just want an opinion on what you guys think of the Janssen hit. That was just about the latest hit I've ever seen. Colin Campbell said it was 1.25 secs late from the time Kaberle released the puck to the hit. 1.25 secs is a hell of a lot of time when you are skating fast. You can probably travel 60 feet in that time. 3 game supsension is ridiculous. I think premeditaition should play a huge role in determining the length of a suspension.

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Loc: Myopia, Canada

Are you insane? There's a hit that late just about every game.

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No there isn't. That's why Kaberle didn't brace/defend himself bc no player expects to be hit that late especailly to the head. It's one thing when a player is up against the boards facing an opponenet and a late hit is delivered, but Janssen's hit was totally out of nowhere.

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The difference between Janssen and Simon is that Simon used his stick as a weapon -- which the NHL is desperately trying to crack down on.

Janssen's hit was dirty, but he used his body and it was close to being a legal bodycheck. There was not the *obvious* and deliberate attempt to injure that was seen with the Simon hit.

I'd agree with you that both were close to being equally dangerous plays, though.

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I know this may sound off the wall but somehow I think that a swing with a stick with the hands apart (as opposed to a full baseball swing) isn't likely to cause severe damage to someone wearing a helmet and visor. Yes you can break a jaw and cause even a concussion, but you're not getting as much power when you swing like that. When your hands are apart like it normally is during stickhandling, and with the sticks weighing next to nothing, I don't know that it can cause a lot of damage to a helmetted player. However, a 220 pound guy skating at 35 miles per hour and hitting someone in the head is almost like a motor vehicle accident. Don't get me wrong, what Simon did was horrendous and he rightfully got suspended for the rest of the season, but was his hit likely to cause a career ending injury?

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you are nuts. a shattered jaw, broken orbital bone, severe concussion - all of these things are possible. Not to mention that suspensions aren't to limit injurious plays - just dangerous ones, and while bodychecks both legal and illegal are dangerous, an incident like that is simply brutal and has no place in any game.

If Janssen's hit happened 5 feet further from the boards, nothing happens and no one gets suspended - I mean, what an absolute joke to think that the Janssen hit is worse. Actually, if Janssen's hit doesn't happen to a Toronto player, it's probably a 1 game suspension, like it deserved. There was no intent to injure, just simply a late hit - next time Kaberle should be aware of who's on the ice. It's unfortunate that it happened, but again, there are guys hitting this late ALL THE TIME, all over the NHL.

[youtalkfunny]

TO: Slim
FROM: YTF
RE: Crazy posts

Congratulations on your recent hat trick.

[B00T]

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Yes you can break a jaw and cause even a concussion, but you're not getting as much power when you swing like that.

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lol are you crazy?

If that hit was 6 inches lower on Hollweg we might be seeing a live feed on ESPN News right now from his funeral.

[Matt Williams]

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Yes you can break a jaw and cause even a concussion, but you're not getting as much power when you swing like that.

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lol are you crazy?

If that hit was 6 inches lower on Hollweg we might be seeing a live feed on ESPN News right now from his funeral.

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6 inches? That's his collerbone. Try 1".

[B00T]

the point was made... no need to be a [censored] nit

[slim]

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going a little off topic here and I'm not trying to compare Simon with Janssen/Kaberle at all. I just want an opinion on what you guys think of the Janssen hit. That was just about the latest hit I've ever seen. Colin Campbell said it was 1.25 secs late from the time Kaberle released the puck to the hit. 1.25 secs is a hell of a lot of time when you are skating fast. You can probably travel 60 feet in that time. 3 game supsension is ridiculous. I think premeditaition should play a huge role in determining the length of a suspension.

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Loc: Myopia, Canada

Are you insane? There's a hit that late just about every game.

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No there isn't. That's why Kaberle didn't brace/defend himself bc no player expects to be hit that late especailly to the head. It's one thing when a player is up against the boards facing an opponenet and a late hit is delivered, but Janssen's hit was totally out of nowhere.

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The difference between Janssen and Simon is that Simon used his stick as a weapon -- which the NHL is desperately trying to crack down on.

Janssen's hit was dirty, but he used his body and it was close to being a legal bodycheck. There was not the *obvious* and deliberate attempt to injure that was seen with the Simon hit.

I'd agree with you that both were close to being equally dangerous plays, though.

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I know this may sound off the wall but somehow I think that a swing with a stick with the hands apart (as opposed to a full baseball swing) isn't likely to cause severe damage to someone wearing a helmet and visor. Yes you can break a jaw and cause even a concussion, but you're not getting as much power when you swing like that. When your hands are apart like it normally is during stickhandling, and with the sticks weighing next to nothing, I don't know that it can cause a lot of damage to a helmetted player. However, a 220 pound guy skating at 35 miles per hour and hitting someone in the head is almost like a motor vehicle accident. Don't get me wrong, what Simon did was horrendous and he rightfully got suspended for the rest of the season, but was his hit likely to cause a career ending injury?

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you are nuts. a shattered jaw, broken orbital bone, severe concussion - all of these things are possible. Not to mention that suspensions aren't to limit injurious plays - just dangerous ones, and while bodychecks both legal and illegal are dangerous, an incident like that is simply brutal and has no place in any game.

If Janssen's hit happened 5 feet further from the boards, nothing happens and no one gets suspended - I mean, what an absolute joke to think that the Janssen hit is worse. Actually, if Janssen's hit doesn't happen to a Toronto player, it's probably a 1 game suspension, like it deserved. There was no intent to injure, just simply a late hit - next time Kaberle should be aware of who's on the ice. It's unfortunate that it happened, but again, there are guys hitting this late ALL THE TIME, all over the NHL.

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there are late hits and then there's Janssen skating 35 feet after the puck is released to plowing his shoulder into Kaberle's head while he is 2 feet from the boards. And do you really believe that because it happened to a Leaf player that the league hands down a stiffer sentence? Are you really that cynical? You think that at the beginning of every season Steve Wakom says to his refs "ok guys and remember , give the Leafs some slack ok? " Fking ridiculous.

Yes you can have a broken jaw, teeth knocked out, broken nose, broken orbit but none of these injusries are likely to be career threatening. Like I said, it's not like Simon took a full wind up swing with follow thru....it was more of a chop.

You look at the weight of the stick and the speed at which it is travelling and compare to the weight of Janssen and the speed at which he is travelling, I'll take the stick to the head.

[slim]

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Yes you can break a jaw and cause even a concussion, but you're not getting as much power when you swing like that.

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lol are you crazy?

If that hit was 6 inches lower on Hollweg we might be seeing a live feed on ESPN News right now from his funeral.

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that's BS.....if you're going to play the "what if" game then hockey shouldn't even be allowed to be a sport. Yes if he was struck in the throat, he could have died but I'm pretty Simon would not aim at his throat. What if Kaberle was a little closer to the boards and broke his neck? What if when you take a slap shot, the puck is deflected into someone's throat?or eye? Should we outlaw shot blocking? You could get a shot in the throat (like the Canadiens player a few years ago).

I'm not trying to minimize Simon's hit. Im just saying that people are overlooking other hits (like Janssens's) just because it doesn't "look" as viscous.....it can still cause as much or more damage. When someone is not bracing for a hit (especially to the head), they can get seriously injured. Look at Shanahan's collision a few weeks ago. They weren't even skating that fast but when you don't expect it, it's like being in a car accident going 30-40mph with no seatbelt.

[Triumph36]

lol yea the Janssen hit got overlooked, what a [censored] joke - it got played all over Canada 'cause it happened to the Leafs.

Try the Armstrong elbow on Lukowich that occured the same night as Simon-Hollweg - no call in the game, no suspension.

There is a hit like Janssen's every night. Just watch Ryan Hollweg, Jarkko Ruutu, Matt Cooke, or any number of physical, forechecking forwards - THEY HIT LATE, AND IT HAPPENS OFTEN. You're talking about fractions of a second here between a late hit and a not-late hit.

There are hundreds of hits like Janssen's all over the NHL in a given season - there's less than one stick swinging incident. And you are trying to minimize the Simon shot just to promote the fact that Janssen should've gotten more than 3 games for a routine late hit that happened to cause injury, when at most it should've been a 2 minute minor and a 1 game suspension.

[slim]

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lol yea the Janssen hit got overlooked, what a [censored] joke - it got played all over Canada 'cause it happened to the Leafs.

Try the Armstrong elbow on Lukowich that occured the same night as Simon-Hollweg - no call in the game, no suspension.

There is a hit like Janssen's every night. Just watch Ryan Hollweg, Jarkko Ruutu, Matt Cooke, or any number of physical, forechecking forwards - THEY HIT LATE, AND IT HAPPENS OFTEN. You're talking about fractions of a second here between a late hit and a not-late hit.

There are hundreds of hits like Janssen's all over the NHL in a given season - there's less than one stick swinging incident. And you are trying to minimize the Simon shot just to promote the fact that Janssen should've gotten more than 3 games for a routine late hit that happened to cause injury, when at most it should've been a 2 minute minor and a 1 game suspension.

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you're confusing a late hit vs a very very late hit from blindside to the head. I'm not minimizing Simon's hit. He deserves at least what he got. But 25 games vs 3 games vs Janssens which was premeditated is ridiculous.

[SuperUberBob]

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Yes you can break a jaw and cause even a concussion, but you're not getting as much power when you swing like that.

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lol are you crazy?

If that hit was 6 inches lower on Hollweg we might be seeing a live feed on ESPN News right now from his funeral.

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that's BS.....if you're going to play the "what if" game then hockey shouldn't even be allowed to be a sport. Yes if he was struck in the throat, he could have died but I'm pretty Simon would not aim at his throat. What if Kaberle was a little closer to the boards and broke his neck? What if when you take a slap shot, the puck is deflected into someone's throat?or eye? Should we outlaw shot blocking? You could get a shot in the throat (like the Canadiens player a few years ago).

I'm not trying to minimize Simon's hit. Im just saying that people are overlooking other hits (like Janssens's) just because it doesn't "look" as viscous.....it can still cause as much or more damage. When someone is not bracing for a hit (especially to the head), they can get seriously injured. Look at Shanahan's collision a few weeks ago. They weren't even skating that fast but when you don't expect it, it's like being in a car accident going 30-40mph with no seatbelt.

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Intentions don't matter as much as you think. If hypothetically, Simon did kill Hallweg by smacking him in the throat with his stick, he'd still be responsible for his death even if he just meant to hit him in the face. Not only would he be suspended from the NHL, he'd likely go to jail as well.

Fact was that it could be perceived as a premeditated attack. A case could be made that it was a "heat of the moment" or "crime of passion" situation where as Bertuzzi distinctly planned out his coming-from-behind attack on Moore. But it wasn't some accidental hit or a legal body check that caused damage to Hollweg. It was a stick, which is a potentially lethal weapon.

And if you cannot tell the difference between a shot block and assaulting somebody with a hockey stick, then you're a tool. One is an accidental result of a perfectly legitimate action (shot blocking). The other is an attack intended to cause serious bodily harm.