2007 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[Eagles]

Degenerasian,
John mcdonald and royce clayton are both pretty bad defensively.
Link
Link

Guys like Ted Lilly are not a dime a dozen. Ted Lilly is one of the 50 best starters in the Majors. He is a very good pitcher and far better than chacin, ohka, towers, thomson, and zambrano.

[bigt2k4]

[ QUOTE ]
Degenerasian,
John mcdonald and royce clayton are both pretty bad defensively.
Link
Link

Guys like Ted Lilly are not a dime a dozen. Ted Lilly is one of the 50 best starters in the Majors. He is a very good pitcher and far better than chacin, ohka, towers, thomson, and zambrano.

[/ QUOTE ]
uh no, I havent seen Clayton, but I hear he is pretty good defensively, but not the greatest bat. Mcdonald is a top 5 defensive shortstop in the game, but has absolutely no bat.

[TheRover]

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Degenerasian,
John mcdonald and royce clayton are both pretty bad defensively.
Link
Link

Guys like Ted Lilly are not a dime a dozen. Ted Lilly is one of the 50 best starters in the Majors. He is a very good pitcher and far better than chacin, ohka, towers, thomson, and zambrano.

[/ QUOTE ]
uh no, I havent seen Clayton, but I hear he is pretty good defensively, but not the greatest bat. Mcdonald is a top 5 defensive shortstop in the game, but has absolutely no bat.

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did you not even click on those links or what? p.s. royce clayton is like 45 years old. make a list of SS that were good defensively at 40+. go.

although i don't know why he said mcdonald was bad defensively when nothing in the link said that.

[Degenerasian]

[ QUOTE ]
Degenerasian,
John mcdonald and royce clayton are both pretty bad defensively.
Link
Link

Guys like Ted Lilly are not a dime a dozen. Ted Lilly is one of the 50 best starters in the Majors. He is a very good pitcher and far better than chacin, ohka, towers, thomson, and zambrano.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, who is this guy lol? I might have missed it, but he provides no explanation of what RSpt and RS/150 mean. I do not know the legitimacy of these rankings but theres a lot of flaws, like Ichiro not being the best defensive RF in the AL. Also Vernon does not deserve to be named #2 defensive CF in the AL if you ask me.

In regards to Lilly, I can agree with the people you name that he is better than. Mainly because they all suck and are below average pitchers. I am pretty sure I can name you 50 starters better than Lilly. His career ERA is 4.60 and wouldnt have won 15 games last year if he was on a team that couldn't hit. He does not really have a great pitch and last year was his best year.

[vin17]

Did I miss the memo saying head high fastballs were OK to swing at on 0-2 counts?

[Degenerasian]

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Did I miss the memo saying head high fastballs were OK to swing at on 0-2 counts?

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lol
we deserved to lose that game anyway, but yeah it does hurt to see a amazing comeback fall short

[Eagles]

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Degenerasian,
John mcdonald and royce clayton are both pretty bad defensively.
Link
Link

Guys like Ted Lilly are not a dime a dozen. Ted Lilly is one of the 50 best starters in the Majors. He is a very good pitcher and far better than chacin, ohka, towers, thomson, and zambrano.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, who is this guy lol? I might have missed it, but he provides no explanation of what RSpt and RS/150 mean. I do not know the legitimacy of these rankings but theres a lot of flaws, like Ichiro not being the best defensive RF in the AL. Also Vernon does not deserve to be named #2 defensive CF in the AL if you ask me.

In regards to Lilly, I can agree with the people you name that he is better than. Mainly because they all suck and are below average pitchers. I am pretty sure I can name you 50 starters better than Lilly. His career ERA is 4.60 and wouldnt have won 15 games last year if he was on a team that couldn't hit. He does not really have a great pitch and last year was his best year.

[/ QUOTE ]
Chris Dial is very well respected in the sabrmetric community for his defensive rankings.
Link
This explains how he makes his rankings rs=run saved.

Please don't quote Lilly's 15 wins because wins is basically a meaningless stat.

Lilly might not be top 50 but he is very close. Where would you rank him?

[Degenerasian]

I quoted Lilly's wins because it was one of the few good stats he posted last year. That and his K's numbers were good too.

Ted Lilly is just too inconsistent to be named a top 50 pitcher. I'd probably have him in the 65-75 range.

[Eagles]

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I quoted Lilly's wins because it was one of the few good stats he posted last year. That and his K's numbers were good too.

Ted Lilly is just too inconsistent to be named a top 50 pitcher. I'd probably have him in the 65-75 range.

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Okay I disagree but that's fine. Now do you realize how valuable a 65-75 starting pitcher is?

[Pudge714]

Degenerasian,
Chris Dial's defensive rankings are probably the most accurate defensive rankings. There are certain flaws namely that defense has a lot of variance so in a particular year it's possible one player is getting lucky and his rankings overrate that players skill. It's funny when people say stuff like McDonald or Royce Clayton are such good defensive SS when Aaron Hill is a better SS than both of them.

Reed Johnson had a career year last year while platooning he will regress a lot this year. As for your rankings of leadoff hitters, Jeter (is 2 this year), Sizemore, Crawford and Hanley are all better than Ichiro and Soriano.

Notice how every team in baseball (pretty much, please don't be a nit) always needs starting pitching. Having a mediocre second starter or very good third starter is an incredibly valuable commodity. Lilly has a really good curve ball when it is on, his bigger problem is his really high walk rate and his high home run rate.