durr vs sbrugby HU

[El Diablo]

BT,

"Masked Man, you pwnd yourself with your statement."

You have like quadruple pwned yourself here.

You actually engaged in a serious discussion refuting the merits of a proof which contained as a primary element "durrrr is >= than a blind monkey."

[BradleyHolland]

Bluffthis, I actually did attempt to give a mathematical proof. I find it amazing that you state that you wont reply to this thread right after I do so.

To supplement my argument further - what if Durr took the policy of calling the reraise and calling on ANY flop BUT 8s7s6s, which would have higher EV, pushing pf, or calling?

[Python49]

BT seems correct based on the assumption that since Dur cannot afford to just call pre flop and and fold on the flop all in, that getting it in pf is the lesser of two bad plays.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]

2) For the effective stack sizes in this situation, durrr CANNOT both put aba on a wide enough range to make calling pre to 2/3 of the stack correct and then be able to correctly fold on some flops. This is why pushing>calling, though BOTH are still BAD plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

pushing > calling is only true if durrr is a COMPLETE MORON. it's not that hard to understand.

durrr doesnt need to know aba's exact range. if he can guess close, calling is significantly better than folding. if he can't put aba on a range, he can assume that aba's range is anywhere between slightly tighter than his actual range and 100% of hands and still play the flop with equal or higher EV than he would by pushing preflop.

the only way calling can be -EV compared to pushing is if durrrr puts aba on a much, much tighter range than his actual range and makes bad folds on a lot of flops. if you weren't a moron you'd understand this. durrr is simply not that retarded.

[VanVeen]

Bluff, stop being so verbose and just state your points plainly. After slogging through the murk of your posts I have to agree with at least one point you almost made.

"2) For the effective stack sizes in this situation, durrr CANNOT both put aba on a wide enough range to make calling pre to 2/3 of the stack correct and then be able to correctly fold on some flops. This is why pushing>calling, though BOTH are still BAD plays."

Reworded: IF durrr assigns aba a hand range that is wide enough to justify putting more money in the pot after aba's 4bet then it is not a given that he can reliably make the correct decision as to calling or folding on the flop. Simple enough, and probably true. There is probably a significant set of flops where durrr will be getting the pot odds and have the equity to call vs. aba's flop-adjusted hand range but that if he planned on calling (or folding on a diff set of flops) on all of those flops all of the time his overall preflop/flop strategy is flawed and -EV. It's way more complicated in PLO than NLHE because there are more, hrm, gradations of equity for diff hands on diff flops.

If, say, durrr's #1 priority is for an instant continuing with the hand in spite of it being -EV vs. aba's 4betting range (100% AAxx, say) then yes, it is certainly true that calling is much better than shoving all-in and disputing that is arrant foolishness.

[VanVeen]

i think the cognitive standard durrr must meet is substantially higher than "not a moron" if aba's hand range is wide enough to make durrr's decision to continue with this hand hand defensible. it simply won't be that easy to come up with a flop strategy that adjuncts profitably with his preflop decision (in isolation) if aba's range is wide. this becomes even more true as the stacks become deeper (OBV.).

again, if aba's range is very strong, clearly defined (AAxx, AKsKJs, etc.) and durrr MUST continue with the hand then yes, as long as durrr isn't a total [censored] up calling is way better than shoving.

btw: i hate defending bluffthis after he was so thoroughly owned by his own incompetence but he does have a point.

[stinkypete]

if aba's range is wide, then the correct play on the flop is to get it all in. eezeee.

so in that case, calling is equal to shoving.

the point is, shoving is never better than calling.

[restrikt]

Pushing Preflop is never better than calling here.

We know ABA is pushing on the flop no matter what. As a result, Durrr should just call, and see the flop.

[BradleyHolland]

BluffThis!

btw if you dont want to reply in this thread, please pm me as i am genuinely curious.

'what if Durr took the policy of calling the reraise and calling on ANY flop BUT 8s7s6s, which would have higher EV, pushing pf, or calling?
'

[absoludicrous]

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[ QUOTE ]
reason?

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I know durrrr has a lot more PLO experience and I've heard some consider him the best PLO player in the world apart from maybe Benyamine. Plus hasn't aba only been playing PLO for like 3-4 months? I know he's really good but I think durrrr is better.

[/ QUOTE ]


If I was drinking a domestic I would have spit it out, but since I'm drinking a Maudite, I kept it in. Are you [censored] kidding me? Second to Benyamine for best in the world...come on...this is just ludicrous.