PokerFink's NFC Rankings (Week 9)

[PokerFink]

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*** You are ignoring this user ***


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I hope you're not writing a lot in these posts.

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That's a shame. Jack is very smart, and he is saying some very intelligent stuff in this thread, although I'm saying basically the same stuff.

Edit: By the way, Jack, how am I doing interpreting and explaining this FO luck stuff? You're obviously more qualified than I am.

[PokerFink]

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For the record, I disagree with 90% of the stuff I read from them. In their latest power ranking, they have the Colts ranked 7th. Yes 7th!

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Do you read the commentary, or do you just look at the rankings and draw your own conclusions?

[Assani Fisher]

Ok, fair points. I still very much disagree with this though: "It's not a small sample size when you're comparing every defensive player and every interception."

Imagine that every running back got 5 carries per season. Do you really think that we could judge them in any way based upon that? Of course not...its just not enough evidence. Now of course certain RBs are better than others. And I therefore believe that certain defensive players are better than others at running back INTs.

I think you make a very good point about how the player's positioning is rather random on INTs and therefore an element of luck is involved. However, just as McNabb needs to be careful on throws which could easily be a pick-6, I think that offenses can choose to position their players in better spots for when INTs happen. For example, a team that is max protecing their QB on a play and only sending out 2 WRs will clearly be in better position to tackle the interceptor than a team that has players all over the field.

I only played high school football, but I can clearly remember practicing for when a QB throws a pick and how we should react. It is a learned skill. I think that field awareness is vital here. For example look at Clinton Portis on the play that he got injured in the preseason. I think that Portis clearly demonstrated that hes pretty good at defending against a pick six on that play. Other players just look horrible when put in that spot.

I don't want to continually hijack your threads with Eagles arguments, so I think I may start a new thread about the argument of "luck" in football so we can discuss it there.

[Assani Fisher]

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*** You are ignoring this user ***


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I hope you're not writing a lot in these posts.

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That's a shame. Jack is very smart, and he is saying some very intelligent stuff in this thread, although I'm saying basically the same stuff.

Edit: By the way, Jack, how am I doing interpreting and explaining this FO luck stuff? You're obviously more qualified than I am.

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I've had no problems with Jack in the past. However, I definitely have a problem with "internet tough guys." Part of the reason that I use my real name instead of an alias here is because I am not afraid to stand behind what I say. And if you notice, although I disagree with a lot of people, I usually am respectful and never insulting.

Let me put it to you this way: If I was having this conversation in person, and a stranger called me an f-ing moron and then said that Engligh "must not be my first language" the conversation would be instantly stopped and I would tell the guy to either stop the personal attacks or we would be fighting. I'm usually a pretty even-tempered guy, so I'd definitely give him a warning, but I'll definitely stand up for myself when someone is saying stuff like that. But since we can't fight when we're discussing on the internet, you get these "internet tough guys" who say things that they would never say in person.

PokerFink, I have no problem with you at all. We've disagreed a ton, but if I saw you in person tomorrow at some random bar, I'd buy you a beer and we could continue these debates in person. But I'm just not going to be verbally attacked like that. Its just immature.

But ok, I'll take him off ignore and go look at his posts.....

[Assani Fisher]

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For the record, I disagree with 90% of the stuff I read from them. In their latest power ranking, they have the Colts ranked 7th. Yes 7th!

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Do you read the commentary, or do you just look at the rankings and draw your own conclusions?

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I read the commentary and I understand the system they use. I disagree with the premise of their rating system.

[TheRover]

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YOU'RE A PIECE OF [censored] POSTER THAT SHOULD BE BANNED.

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[Jack of Arcades]

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*** You are ignoring this user ***


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I hope you're not writing a lot in these posts.

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That's a shame. Jack is very smart, and he is saying some very intelligent stuff in this thread, although I'm saying basically the same stuff.

Edit: By the way, Jack, how am I doing interpreting and explaining this FO luck stuff? You're obviously more qualified than I am.

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Just link him to the latest ratings and have him read it. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6147120

It's really tough to argue with these points.

[PokerFink]

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I therefore believe that certain defensive players are better than others at running back INTs.

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I agree. As I said, Ed Reed and Ronde Barber sure seem good at it.

But the skill factor involved is like, maybe, 10%. The other 90% has to do with where the pass is intercepted, the route, the defensive formation, the offensive play, the tackling by offensive players, and the blocking by defensive players. All of those things are completely out of the intercepting player's control.

As I said, interception returns are due, MOSTLY, to blind luck. Not completely.

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However, just as McNabb needs to be careful on throws which could easily be a pick-6, I think that offenses can choose to position their players in better spots for when INTs happen.

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Absolutely. The fact that the Eagles called a short hitch route anywhere in the vicinity of Ronde Barber is complete idiocy. That's awful coaching. I mean, it's not like the most painful play in Eagles history is Ronde Barber jumping a short hitch route.

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I don't want to continually hijack your threads with Eagles arguments, so I think I may start a new thread about the argument of "luck" in football so we can discuss it there.

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I mean, what else is there to discuss with the NFC? I think the Eagles are the most debatable team, by far. Hijack my thread all you want with Eagles stuff =)

Who's number 1? Who cares - we find out this week.
NFC West? Who cares - we find out this week.

[Assani Fisher]

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*** You are ignoring this user ***


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I hope you're not writing a lot in these posts.

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That's a shame. Jack is very smart, and he is saying some very intelligent stuff in this thread, although I'm saying basically the same stuff.

Edit: By the way, Jack, how am I doing interpreting and explaining this FO luck stuff? You're obviously more qualified than I am.

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Just link him to the latest ratings and have him read it. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6147120

It's really tough to argue with these points.

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I have you off ignore now.

-Would you really bet money that the Colts would lose a neutral site game right now against all of the 6 teams ranked ahead of them?

-Do you even think the writers at that site would really bet their own money on that?

The Colts won ON THE ROAD against the Giants? How can you rationally say that the Giants are better than them? The Eagles are 4-4 and the Colts are 8-0? How can you rationally say that the Eagles would beat them right now? I could go on with other teams, but I think you see my point.

[J.R.]

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Ok, fair points. I still very much disagree with this though: "It's not a small sample size when you're comparing every defensive player and every interception."

Imagine that every running back got 5 carries per season. Do you really think that we could judge them in any way based upon that? Of course not...its just not enough evidence. Now of course certain RBs are better than others. And I therefore believe that certain defensive players are better than others at running back INTs.

I think you make a very good point about how the player's positioning is rather random on INTs and therefore an element of luck is involved. However, just as McNabb needs to be careful on throws which could easily be a pick-6, I think that offenses can choose to position their players in better spots for when INTs happen. For example, a team that is max protecing their QB on a play and only sending out 2 WRs will clearly be in better position to tackle the interceptor than a team that has players all over the field.


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So teams should call offensive plays with the goal of being in good position to defend against a pick? What about being in position to maximize offensive success?

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I only played high school football, but I can clearly remember practicing for when a QB throws a pick and how we should react. It is a learned skill. I think that field awareness is vital here. For example look at Clinton Portis on the play that he got injured in the preseason. I think that Portis clearly demonstrated that hes pretty good at defending against a pick six on that play. Other players just look horrible when put in that spot.

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Aren't you the guy complaining about sample sizes above?


FWIW Rex Ryan has the Ravens D run lateral drills, tip drills and interception return drills pretty much every practice.