The Big Point About The Prisoners Dilemma - Page 11

tomdemaine · #**101** 10-01-2006, 04:36 PM

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Only because of a lack of alternatives but there's nothing anyone can do about that. If you get your AC society than you have to prevent people who want government from having it.

chez

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Feel free to set up your own government just don't involve me.

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As Borodog has pointed out that's not possible. The government will grow out of control and will involve you.

chez

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Whos side are you on?

David Sklansky · #**102** 10-01-2006, 04:41 PM

The side of trying to get to the right answer rather than justify an answer?

chezlaw · #**103** 10-01-2006, 04:42 PM

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If you get your AC society than you have to prevent people who want government from having it.

chez

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Also 100% false. There is nothing preventing you from buing some land and starting a commune, or a democracy, or any flavor of tyranny you can convince people to voluntarily live under. As a 19th century philosopher noted, under laissez-faire, all other systems are possible; under no other system is laisse-faire allowable.

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but not a system of government which imposes upon people, which is what a lot of people want. To get your AC society you have to prevent them from having what they want.

chez

DougShrapnel · #**104** 10-01-2006, 04:44 PM

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Are you being intentionally obtuse

[/ QUOTE ] I wish, your and PVN's ridicule don't do anything for me. Although I'm not surprised I'm disagreeing with anyone who says this is the only way to accomplish a goal.

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do you really not see the difference?

[/ QUOTE ] The difference I see is that one is a weightlifting league and the other is a government. A difference of scale.

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In one case I can voluntarilly choose to join an organization and follow its bylaws, or I can choose not to join and not be subject to its rules. In the other case I am coerced in joining and being subject to its rules, under penalty of violence and death.

[/ QUOTE ] If you wish to bring up unrealistic choices. Suicide is a choice, you don't have to participate in government or society if you don't wish to. Not that I recommend it, you have a good head on your shoulders, and the world would be better if it listened to some of your ideas. Moving is a choice you could make and form you own government, something that you consider a great injustice. Affecting change in the government and the opinions of the populace. It appears you have made this choice.

BCPVP · #**105** 10-01-2006, 04:44 PM

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To get your AC society you have to prevent them from having what they want.

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Some people like to murder, but that doesn't mean we should let them have what they want...

Borodog · #**106** 10-01-2006, 04:45 PM

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Only because of a lack of alternatives but there's nothing anyone can do about that. If you get your AC society than you have to prevent people who want government from having it.

chez

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Feel free to set up your own government just don't involve me.

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As Borodog has pointed out that's not possible. The government will grow out of control and will involve you.

chez

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You are conflating two different arguments.

tomdemaine · #**107** 10-01-2006, 04:46 PM

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The side of trying to get to the right answer rather than justify an answer?

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If you had read some of my past politics posts you'd see the massive swings in my thinking as I groped towards what I see as the right answer.

Borodog · #**108** 10-01-2006, 04:46 PM

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To get your AC society you have to prevent them from having what they want.

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Some people like to murder, but that doesn't mean we should let them have what they want...

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Borodog · #**109** 10-01-2006, 04:49 PM

Just to make it clear, I am not now, nor have I ever, advocated "forcing" anarchocapitalism on society. That's oxymoronic; it doesn't even make sense.

As I have said many times, it will be impossible to get rid of coercive government as long as the majority of the population believe in coercive government. Obviously. That's the main reason it is so critically important for governments to sooner or later monopolize education.

Borodog · #**110** 10-01-2006, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
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Are you being intentionally obtuse

[/ QUOTE ] I wish, your and PVN's ridicule don't do anything for me. Although I'm not surprised I'm disagreeing with anyone who says this is the only way to accomplish a goal.

[ QUOTE ]
do you really not see the difference?

[/ QUOTE ] The difference I see is that one is a weightlifting league and the other is a government.

[ QUOTE ]
In one case I can voluntarilly choose to join an organization and follow its bylaws, or I can choose not to join and not be subject to its rules. In the other case I am coerced in joining and being subject to its rules, under penalty of violence and death.

[/ QUOTE ] If you wish to bring up unrealistic choices.

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What are you talking about? How is that unrealistic? It's perfectly realistic. It is a perfectly accurate description of the state of affairs. Denying this is to merely assume your conclusion.

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Suicide is a choice, you don't have to participate in government or society if you don't wish to. Not that I recommend it, you have a good head on your shoulders, and the world would be better if it listened to some of your ideas. Moving is a choice you could make and form you own government, something that you consider a great injustice.

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So I should either kill myself, move to Antarctica, or shut up? Those are the choices you allow me?

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Affecting change in the government and the opinions of the populace. It appears you have made this choice.

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That's what I'm doing. So what the hell is your problem?

I swear I cannot fathom the way you people think.