so let me get this new WPEX thing straight

[spino1i]

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, I think this actually hurts your average player more. There are always ways around these types of things. So the player who is more computer savvy, etc. will still be using a HUD while less others will be. Why not leave the information as public knowledge and let everyone use a HUD. Seems like more of an equal playing ground that way.

If you want to eliminate HUDS, this sure isnt the way to do it. Instead you should clearly state that HUD's are not allowed on the site and use aggressive techniques to enforce it. Simply removing the names from a hand history is the cheap/easy thing to do which in turn only hurts the majority while helping the minority.

[/ QUOTE ]

amen

[MNpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
#1) [ QUOTE ]
Write hand histories to disk but do not include the opposing player names. Everyone gets the tracking ability for themselves but not the fish finding and HUD capabilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be unbelievably cool!!!

Just show me and the seat#'s for the other players in the HH. And let me save it to my hard drive immediately, and have instant HH's.

PT for me would look like this:
MyName
Seat #1
Seat #2
Seat #3
....

And no other player names.

We get to keep records and know that players who are playing vs. us only have what they have personally made notes on and seen during the current session.


[/ QUOTE ]

Woo Hoo!!!

[CharlieDontSurf]

This is awesome...once Party Poker, Empire, Full Tilt Poker, and Poker Stars go out of business I'll so be playing at WSEX.

[spino1i]

This is a horrible decision on WPEX's part. There is a reason no other major site has hand histories like this, and a very good one. For all of you saying multi-tabling HUD bots will drive away all the fish, take a look at Full Tilt. No where else is it easier to datamine to your hearts content and use HUDs all day long. And yet the site has been growing like wildfire recently, take a look at the pokersitescout stats if you dont believe me.

On the other hand, for the last 2 months, WPEX has had no hand histories to the HD and no PokerAce HUD support and look how far its gotten. It hasnt hardly grown much at all.

Here's news for any of you listening: Fish dont care about HUDs!!! They want to play! "Boring" multi-tabling HUD-"bots" like me DO care and will not play without them. And you need my business first before you get the fish's business. Fish only play where there are people. They dont know if they are playing against multi-tabling HUD-bots. They dont care about things like the rake (look at all the idiots that flocked the Monster tables at Party). You need to attract people like me first to start your site, then build on that with the fish. Sorry but this was a horrible move, and I hope that WSEX sees the errors in their ways and amends this problem..

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
8 tabling, datamining nits do not provide you sports betting action.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes they do.
Perhaps not as much, but I think it's much closer than you think.

Lots of 2+2'ers dropped a TON'o'dough on the Party blackjack.
Other 2+2'ers who can play mutiple tables have some big, old gambling problems and WILL bet more on sports.

Others MIGHT start betting sports even if they don't understand how the EV stuff works in it.
Geez, we even have a legion of 2+2'ers (who multitable) who are convinced that Party/Stars/anywhere rigged the deal.


Just because you play 8 tables at once and read 2+2 occasionally does NOT mean you are good at poker, know what you're doing, or aren't immune to the same types of gambling temptations that get the fish.


There seem to be more and more super-fishy 4+tabling players these days.

I was at a table where a couple of players were chatting about clearing bonuses at RB at Absolute, etc etc. They both sya they usually play 3-4 tables at once and just pull down the RB (but we were at a different site clearing a bonus there at the time).
One of the guys was about 40/3 and the other guy was like 38/15. They were both berating some of the other players at the table.

They were both BAD players but were both multi-tabling and bonus-whoring/rake-back aware.

2+2'er does NOT necessarily equal 'good player who never tilts and never overbets-his-bankroll on fishy games'

rakeback or bonus-aware player also does not necessarily equal good player either.


This is a big poker forum now with a lot of readers.
WPEX is correct to go after the clientele here...and is also correct that some of the players here WILL actually get hooked on the sports-gambling and other casino games.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
why not give it back in a way that appeals to the fish?

Regular jackpot bonuses for no good reason or money in their account via email after they have quit playing for a while

[/ QUOTE ]


ummm, yeah, you could do that I suppose. But such stupid jackpots and inconsequential bonuses is a big part of the reason why many of us left Party for WPEX in the first place.


If WPEX did something like this (taking away 100% rakeback to do it) by saying, "But we're giving great jackpots now!!" I would laugh a hearty laugh, say, "Thanks World PARTY Exchange," and cash-out my entire balance there too.

[Gregg777]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why not give it back in a way that appeals to the fish?

Regular jackpot bonuses for no good reason or money in their account via email after they have quit playing for a while

[/ QUOTE ]


ummm, yeah, you could do that I suppose. But such stupid jackpots and inconsequential bonuses is a big part of the reason why many of us left Party for WPEX in the first place.


If WPEX did something like this (taking away 100% rakeback to do it) by saying, "But we're giving great jackpots now!!" I would laugh a hearty laugh, say, "Thanks World PARTY Exchange," and cash-out my entire balance there too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Party does not give the type of jackpots I am referring to, but either way it wouldn't appeal to you because you're not a donktastic gambling fish.

I am only speaking about WPEX's misguided marketing campaign, not attracting all players as a whole.

WPEX's rake free counter primarily appeals to exactly the kind of player they obviously don't want.

I just think that's ironic.

Donktastic fish want excitement, that's all.

Casino's understand this perfectly well and design their entire marketing strategy around it.

[repulse]

[ QUOTE ]
Skilled players are not intimidated by having to use their observational skills rather than programs to judge other players. Beginning players will not be intimidated by hudbots. Good move by WPEX.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how "intimidated" could be the word you were looking for here.

Skilled players, at least most of them, play with the goal of maximizing profit. The majority would do so by playing at a site that allowed HUDs instead of WSEX, perhaps playing more tables than they could have at WSEX.

Regardless of your stance on HUDs, this is how it works as long as they are around and generally viewed as acceptable to use.

other observations:
1) There is an alarming degree of irrational and blatantly biased HUD hate in this thread. I think WSEX's change is interesting, but let's not turn it into some valiant, revolutionary move against HUDs. They can choose whether or not to allow/enable them at their site, and the experts will make their optimal decisions upon where to play appropriately.

2) Players who really want to HUD at WSEX still have possible ways around this -- potential "unlevel playing field" issue. e.g. Party datamining.

3) Foundation for a workaround: Assuming the HHs have time and date, a simple program could allow a player to enter the usernames of the players at his table in real-time and compose these with the HHs later.


Personally, I am more inclined to check out WSEX now than I was before since I can at least use PT to conveniently track my wins and losses. But I don't expect that I will bother, since the additional focus spent keeping manual tallies on my opponents at a WSEX table would be better spent playing multiple tables of a different site.

[MrBlueNose]

[ QUOTE ]


Skilled players, at least most of them, play with the goal of maximizing profit. The majority would do so by playing at a site that allowed HUDs instead of WSEX, perhaps playing more tables than they could have at WSEX.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play with the goal of maximizing profit, and I would much prefer playing on a site where HUDs etc aren't available, because that will drive away a lot of the better players, which is profitable for me. I do play on sites that use HUDs as well and use HUDs on my own at those sites, but it's nice to have an alternative. Player notes and key observation skills are all that are really sufficient.

[repulse]

That's cool. I'm not saying that there aren't players who would profit more if HUDs weren't allowed, just that most profitable players are better off with them. A player more accustomed to live play is probably intrinsically more comfortable without a HUD, whereas the young internet grinders are well-versed in the application of the tools a HUD gives.