Exodus Story In Doubt

[vhawk01]

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But surely Lestat is also "not unreasonable" when he doesn't accept provisional historical accuracy as enough of a track record to establish metaphysical accuracy?


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That's the issue isn't it? He's betting his eternal soul that he isn't being unreasonable. The Bible says he is.

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all people have things called smithers. a smither is infinitely more valuable than a human soul. all christians lose their smithers when they die.

do you really want to bet your smither, which is infinitely more valuable than your eternal soul, that i'm wrong? i mean, if there's any chance at all that i'm right, you shouldn't be a christian. how can you be sure enough that i'm wrong to risk losing your smither??

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Please to be letting me steal this. Its so much more succinct and easily understood than what I usually use to make this argument, which is my mustache-twisting nefarious God who vindictively punishes Christians.

[ChoicestHops]

I can't believe in the story when the sole reason for the plagues was for God to show his power to the world. God hardened pharaoh's heart so that he would not believe in God, on purpose, so he could go on killing families' firstborn who had absolutely nothing to do with anything. It's too absurd for me to believe.

[ChoicestHops]

Also is there not a contradiction when two different plagues wiped out the Egyptian livestock yet somehow they had chariots to chase down the Jews?

[Lestat]

<font color="blue"> The fact that he claims to be able to determine which is more likely is absurd and is based on no mathematics. </font>

Well, I am embarrassingly poor at math and probably one of the ones you're speaking of who assume his use of Bay's Theorum has a place in his arguments. So help me out with this one...

I would think that the Exodus story IS in fact, many, many times more likely to be true than the parting of the Red Sea story. I base this on the fact that in order for the Exodus story to be true, all that is needed is for a seemingly unlikely event to actually have occured. Whereas, in order for the Red Sea story to be true, you need not only an unlikely event to have occured, but you also need a complete suspension of physical properties that are very well known to govern our universe. Hence, if I were a bookmaker, I'd put both of these events as great underdogs, but I'd set much longer odds for the parting of the Red Sea ever happening.

Btw- I also miss PTB. He was one of the few who could keep David on his toes and make him think a little more before spouting some math to make a point. I for one, have no hope of ever catching David taking taking unfounded mathematical liberties.

[borisp]

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all people have things called smithers. a smither is infinitely more valuable than a human soul. all christians lose their smithers when they die.

do you really want to bet your smither, which is infinitely more valuable than your eternal soul, that i'm wrong? i mean, if there's any chance at all that i'm right, you shouldn't be a christian. how can you be sure enough that i'm wrong to risk losing your smither??

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Any theist who immediately disregards this point (which they usually do, as it is conjured to be ridiculous) is choosing only to believe in what they have personal experience with, which is presumptively not a smither, but rather what they call a soul. (At least they are choosing to believe that what they and others describe as their souls must have something in common, in that they know smither and soul are different.)

Point being: they are either using some version of Occam's Razor, or evidence based belief, to draw their conclusion. Usually, their emotional investment in being right prohibits their accurate use of these principles, but in this case, it is exactly these principles that counter the absurd point regarding the smither. Furthermore they use them effortlessly and instantly, without even realizing it, as they turn their noses up in disgust.

Which means that now they have shown their willingness to accept these principles...and it is game over regarding virtually every theistic claim (except with those their emotional investment in being right kicks back in...uggggh)

Anyway, yes I like this version, will be stealing to use as well.

[Peter666]

"ie Exodus non evidence is more meaningful than resurection non evidence. And no one has responded to it."

No one is responding because no one knows what you are basing that assumption on.

I already asked: "Exactly what are 600,000 nomadic slaves suppose to leave behind to prove their existence 3000 years into the future?"

You and the archaeologists seem to know something that the rest of us don't. Why should we take your word that one event is more meaningful than the other? Do you guys demand unquestionable obedience because you have more letters behind your names? Prove it!

djames has made the same point.

[Peter666]

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Also is there not a contradiction when two different plagues wiped out the Egyptian livestock yet somehow they had chariots to chase down the Jews?

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Do cows pull chariots?

[Peter666]

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I can't believe in the story when the sole reason for the plagues was for God to show his power to the world. God hardened pharaoh's heart so that he would not believe in God, on purpose, so he could go on killing families' firstborn who had absolutely nothing to do with anything. It's too absurd for me to believe.

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Killing the Egyptian firstborns was revenge for killing the Israelites firstborns back in baby Moses' day. It seems fitting.

[Taraz]

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I already asked: "Exactly what are 600,000 nomadic slaves suppose to leave behind to prove their existence 3000 years into the future?"


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How about an account from an extra-biblical source? The Egyptians kept insanely good records yet there is no mention of them.

[NotReady]

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This is the approach we should use on the sceptics: http://www.parkstreet.org/pulpit/Historicity2.pdf


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Excellent link. My Bayes' calculator tells me there's only 1 chance in 10^10,000,000 that DS will look at it.