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#1
12-10-2006, 04:53 AM
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Re: A sub-point
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I have heard the "if I gain, you lose" way too many times, so let me address it. Win-win situations are ALWAYS possible because one party's values are different from another's. If I think X is worth 5 and you think it's worth 10, then we'll both win trading at 7. So don't go there! [/ QUOTE ] Sure, but you're talking about commerce. The problem with capitalism stems from it's parasitic production model, where the owner contributes nothing, but still benefits the most. [/ QUOTE ] The entrepreneur guarantees wages to the worker in exchange for the profit. The workers don't have to wait till the goods are being sold to make money; they make money whether there's a profit or loss. The entrepreneur is compensated for the risk he takes with any profit made. Both sides explicitly agree to this arrangement there should be no problem. And didn't you admit earlier that most owners/managers are not parasites? What's the point of calling capitalism a "parasitic production model" if not empty rhetoric? 
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#2
12-10-2006, 05:36 AM
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Re: A sub-point
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The entrepreneur guarantees wages to the worker in exchange for the profit. [/ QUOTE ] Entirely false! The entrepreneur does not! How many workers have been robbed of their entitlements because the entrepreneur was a half-brained nitwit, brainwashed in the Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Ayn Rand, etc... type of pseudo-intellectual who thinks that the desire to succeed will somehow warrant success!?
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#3
12-10-2006, 08:09 AM
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Re: A sub-point
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And didn't you admit earlier that most owners/managers are not parasites? What's the point of calling capitalism a "parasitic production model" if not empty rhetoric? [/ QUOTE ] No. I said owners who ALSO perform work in the firm make a real contribution. That just means they aren't pure parasites. This is just a single maggot in the rotting corpse of our world. In large part, those who work are poor, and those who are rich do not work.
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#4
12-10-2006, 01:52 PM
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Re: A sub-point
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I have heard the "if I gain, you lose" way too many times, so let me address it. Win-win situations are ALWAYS possible because one party's values are different from another's. If I think X is worth 5 and you think it's worth 10, then we'll both win trading at 7. So don't go there! [/ QUOTE ] Sure, but you're talking about commerce. The problem with capitalism stems from it's parasitic production model, where the owner contributes nothing, but still benefits the most. [/ QUOTE ] This is just plain wrong. I would be willing to bet that your parents didn't own their own business. My dad owns his farm and makes substantial profits from time to time. I would love for you to look him in the eye and tell him he contributes nothing for the profit he makes. Or my best friend's dad who owns a machine shop, tell him that. I garuntee you would could not say another word before you got punched in the face for your complete ignorance and disrespect.
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#5
12-10-2006, 03:39 PM
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Re: A sub-point
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This is just plain wrong. I would be willing to bet that your parents didn't own their own business. My dad owns his farm and makes substantial profits from time to time. I would love for you to look him in the eye and tell him he contributes nothing for the profit he makes. Or my best friend's dad who owns a machine shop, tell him that. I garuntee you would could not say another word before you got punched in the face for your complete ignorance and disrespect. [/ QUOTE ] 1. You lose the bet. My dad owns his own business. Plz PM me for my neteller/UB/AP info so you can pay WHAT YOU OWE. 2. If these people you speak of don't actually do the work on the farm or the machine shop, then they as a matter of absolute fact are simply unproductive and deserve nothing. 3. I practice Jeet Kune Do (martial arts) four times a week and would pwn these violent exploitative fogies you are talking about.
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#6
12-10-2006, 02:33 AM
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Re: A sub-point
[ QUOTE ]
I have heard the "if I gain, you lose" way too many times, so let me address it. Win-win situations are ALWAYS possible because one party's values are different from another's. If I think X is worth 5 and you think it's worth 10, then we'll both win trading at 7. So don't go there! [/ QUOTE ] If I gain, you lose is simple economics even if situations can be considred win-win. If the price of gasoline goes up, I have less to spend on other things, and gasoline providers have more. Certainly if you have the option to buy gasoline for less from someone else, you buying the gasoline from him instead of the other guy is win-win, but that's in comparison to the loss. Let's say I am a Doctor, Doctors in the USA average more than twice the European average. If every doctor in the USA had to take pay commesurate with european doctors, then everyone else would have more money because the doctors would cost less. In USA though, the supply of doctors is kept artificially low so that doctors can get paid more because they're in demand. Since they get paid more, you and I have less. CEOs are similar in that they take from everyone else at their own benefit (Micheal Eisner of Disney made $650 millioon which was equal to more than 10% of Disney's profits, if he made a more reasonable salary, all stock owner's of Disney would have more.) But different because CEOs don't get paid an exorbitant amount because of artificially low supply but rather because of laws in the USA regarding corporate governance (shares may get to vote, but every non-voting share, which, most don't vote because they're held by mutual funds, gets counted as siding with the management instead of simply not counted) and the fact that most CEOs stock their boards full of their close friends and are members of many other boards where their friends are CEOS.
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#7
12-10-2006, 02:45 AM
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Re: A sub-point
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most CEOs stock their boards full of their close friends and are members of many other boards where their friends are CEOS. [/ QUOTE ] This is nonsense. The majority of directors on a board of a publicly traded company must be independent as determined under the qualification rules of the exchange they are listed on. Nominees for the directorships are voted on by the shareholders.
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#8
12-10-2006, 02:57 AM
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Re: A sub-point
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[ QUOTE ] most CEOs stock their boards full of their close friends and are members of many other boards where their friends are CEOS. [/ QUOTE ] This is nonsense. The majority of directors on a board of a publicly traded company must be independent as determined under the qualification rules of the exchange they are listed on. Nominees for the directorships are voted on by the shareholders. [/ QUOTE ] When all unreturned shareholder votes are counted as siding with the management, and most votes aren't returned because they're owned through mutual funds, shareholder votes don't mean anything at all.
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#9
12-10-2006, 04:57 AM
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Re: A sub-point
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If the price of gasoline goes up, I have less to spend on other things, and gasoline providers have more. [/ QUOTE ] Couldn't one consider this a less win-win, but still win-win? Why else would you spend money on the gasoline if you didn't value it more than the money you spent on it?
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#10
12-10-2006, 05:01 AM
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Re: A sub-point
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[ QUOTE ] If the price of gasoline goes up, I have less to spend on other things, and gasoline providers have more. [/ QUOTE ] Couldn't one consider this a less win-win, but still win-win? Why else would you spend money on the gasoline if you didn't value it more than the money you spent on it? [/ QUOTE ] I still have less, they still has more. There are 2 different things going on here.
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Hybrid Mode
