Don Imus

[Prodigy54321]

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there is no actual difference between the two

the difference seems to be that white people generally don't get mad about it, while black people generally do.


[/ QUOTE ] Regardless of how irritating you may or may not find the "white men can't jump" stereotype (and I do find it irritating sometimes), there is an actual difference between the two stereotypes, namely, as Bill said, the one "does not play to a stereotype that has damaged whites for generations".

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of course it does

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Are you really saying that the stereotype "white men can't jump" is as damaging in society to white males as "black women can't do math" is to black women?

this is a stupid sidebar, spawned by a stupid comment

fact: there is a past historical context of discrimination against black people in our country

fact: whites have more money/resources/power relative to blacks in this country

you cannot ignore the above facts just because you would like to

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both are lighthearted..neither necessarily supports as stereotype..I don't mind a "white men can't jump" comment because the person who says is it probably just joking around...if I got the feeling that someone said this and meant it to be offensive, I would be offended, otherwise, I don't care one bit.

why is the other comment different?

again, we are assuming that the second comment has malicious intent...if the comment is indeed meant to be offensive, then I can see a person being offended..but just as with the other comment, if they're just joking around, why be offended?

I'm not saying that the first is as damaging to society as the second..I am saying that neither is necessarily condoning a stereotype...

if both comments are made seriously, then I would be inclined to find both offensive..not to the degree that they may be damaging to society, but to the degree that the people who say them are jackasses for at least making an unjust generalization (I say this because one of both of those statstical anomalies may exist for all I know)

many groups have been descriminated against in the past..what there should be outrage about is if there is CURRENT descrimination..noth whether or not words are used that allude to past descrimination.

[funkytown]

Well Ladies and Gents, MSNBC has dropped the simulcast of Imus' show. I do agree with that decision.

[Utah]

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Well Ladies and Gents, MSNBC has dropped the simulcast of Imus' show. I do agree with that decision.

[/ QUOTE ]That is simply sad. I hate his show but there is no way in hell he should have been fired. The current PC climate is insane and a bit scary.

[Bill Haywood]

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why are black people more entitled to be offended by stupid stereotypes than white poeple?

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They aren't. You're not even trying to see the point. But I'll try once more.

Being an atheist, I think Jesus jokes and Buddha jokes are equivalent. But when I visit dear friends who are devout Christians, I only tell Buddha jokes. Know why? I care about their feelings. But I don't insist that they never disparage Darwin. It simply doesn't bother me, so I don't feel the need to insist on some false equivalence. If I felt really strongly about jumping height jokes, then I have as much right as anybody to protest.

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why should black people be offended, but white people shouldn't?

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You're such a victim. But besides that, you are still missing the point.

No white person I know is genuinely offended by references to jumping height, so that is permissible. African Americans commonly are sensitive about references to mental inferiority. See the difference?

When whites really are offended by something, the world hears all about it. Like flag burning, or Jesus jokes.

[Prodigy54321]

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why are black people more entitled to be offended by stupid stereotypes than white poeple?

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They aren't. You're not even trying to see the point. But I'll try once more.

Being an atheist, I think Jesus jokes and Buddha jokes are equivalent. But when I visit dear friends who are devout Christians, I only tell Buddha jokes. Know why? I care about their feelings. But I don't insist that they never disparage Darwin. It simply doesn't bother me, so I don't feel the need to insist on some false equivalence. If I felt really strongly about jumping height jokes, then I have as much right as anybody to protest.

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why should black people be offended, but white people shouldn't?

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You're such a victim. But besides that, you are still missing the point.

No white person I know is genuinely offended by references to jumping height, so that is permissible. African Americans commonly are sensitive about references to mental inferiority. See the difference?

When whites really are offended by something, the world hears all about it. Like flag burning, or Jesus jokes.

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I completely understand that different people are offended by different things..and no matter how unreasonable it may be, they are still offended..

that is precisely why I don't just go around saying things that have a decent chance of offending someone...

that, however, is not my point..

I don't mind if you are offended by something like a person saying "nappy"..but let's not claim that people are racist because they say things that offend people..whatever damage Imus did go black people by saying "nappy" isn't even close to the damage that they are doing to him by calling him a racist and calling for him to be fired...people don't just recover from those kinds of accusations, no matter how ridiculous...

they are the real scumbags in all of this.

[Prodigy54321]

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No white person I know is genuinely offended by references to jumping height, so that is permissible.

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If I were the type of be offended by someone saying that I am probably bad a math simply because the color of my skin, I would also be offended by someone telling me that I probably can't jump very high simply because of the color of my skin.

if it just so happened that it was generally thought that black people weren't as atheletic as white people, do you honestly think that there wouldn't be any commotion if someone said "black men can't jump"...

do you really think that there wouldn't be a commotion if Imus said made a joke about how black people can't swim?

[Metric]

We can agree that it's generally polite and wise to avoid certain jokes and/or observations around people who tend to get offended by them. We should also agree, though, that people who generally tend to take offense and "protest too much" at all kinds of casual observations and/or jokes are usually not very pleasant or interesting people.

Similarly, the concept that one's career could go down in flames if you don't pay particular attention to offhand comments regarding "group X" does not tend to endear "group X" with a lot of people.

[jogsxyz]

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Are you really saying that the stereotype "white men can't jump" is as damaging in society to white males as "black women can't do math" is to black women?


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ESPN just had a special on the best all-time dunkers in the NBA. All 20 were black players. If the list went to 100, would any white player make the list? Maybe white men can't jump.

[Bill Haywood]

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do you really think that there wouldn't be a commotion if Imus said made a joke about how black people can't swim?

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lol. FYI, one of the hoary old myths is that black people can't swim well, for some obscure biological reason. So yes, there would be plenty of people offended if Imus said that. I have a vague memory of some sportscaster getting forced off the air because he said black people lack "the necessities" for being good swimmers.

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the concept that one's career could go down in flames if you don't pay particular attention to offhand comments regarding "group X" does not tend to endear "group X" with a lot of people.

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"A lot of people" should take responsibility for thinking this through and getting off their hangup about blacks. There are all kinds of thinks Imus could say that would get him fired. If he suggested Israel is a terrorist state, he'd be fired. If he said Jesus knocked up Mary Magdalene, he'd be burned at the stake. If he called for class war against the rich, he'd be run out of the country on a rail. Why is that when African Americans take offense, all of a sudden its reverse discrimination and illegitimate, rather than people simply objecting to ugliness, like any other other interest group would do?

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let's not claim that people are racist because they say things that offend people.

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Both Metric and Prodigy seem to think it is black people's responsibility not to be offended by "offhand" comments that are not "really" racist. But you see, when you are sensitive to other people's feelings, you do not demand the right to decide what should offend them. You just respect their sensibilities. When someone like Imus keeps it up and insists on offending a group of people, you have to ask, why is he doing this? The answer would probably be that he doesn't care about, or even recognize, their feelings.

By saying what he did, Imus is indicating that the feelings of black people do not count. What do you call it when somebody is contemptuous of the inner lives of a whole class of people?

This isn't a case of PC run amok, it's people insisting that they not be punching bags. When Michael Moore makes the rich look despicable, they also fight back. Is that reverse-discrimination too? When the Chamber of Commerce complains of businessmen being made villains in movies, are they being the PC police? Blacks' jumping on Imus is an example of mass politics that we all engage in, not some special privilege.

[AlexM]

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Are you really saying that the stereotype "white men can't jump" is as damaging in society to white males as "black women can't do math" is to black women?


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ESPN just had a special on the best all-time dunkers in the NBA. All 20 were black players. If the list went to 100, would any white player make the list? Maybe white men can't jump.

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Would any black women make the list of the all-time greatest mathematicians?