Probability Question for David Sklansky

[Borodog]

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Also, after speaking with a good friend of mine also in academia, I think letting her take the retest is too lenient, and unfair. It gives her "two bites at the apple" where the other students only had one, as my friend put it.

I will probably take his suggestion, and offer her the alternatives of either taking a zero for the test or escalating the situation to Academic Affairs.

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Yuck, that still seems too harsh for my taste (gender and attractiveness of the cheater has nothing to do with it). But I don't know how many points the test was worth. In most college classes I took a zero on any one test would make you fail the class. Maybe just an F on the test?

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She got off incredibly lightly. I think I mentioned elsewhere in the thread that her lowest test grade, the 0, was dropped, just like everyone else's lowest test grade. She escaped the class with a C.

[latefordinner]

Yes I agree, should have read all the way through the thread before commenting. Now I think it was almost too lenient [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Borodog]

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Yes I agree, should have read all the way through the thread before commenting. Now I think it was almost too lenient [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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It probably was, but there was already a lowest-test-grade-will-be-dropped policy in place.

[doucy]

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An almost unrelated update.

Was talking to another prof in the department about the resolution of this case, and he told me about one he has. Much more severe. Apparently a physics major cheated on the final exam, take home portion, of advanced undergraduate E&M. The prof assigned 2 questions from Jackson on the take home section, and the kid virtually copied line by line from the solution manual. The prof then went back and checked his homeworks, and sure enough, the homeworks show the same thing.

I have not heard what the resolution of this is yet, but a physics major cheating multiple times on homeworks and then on the final exam will almost certainly end his academic career in the department.

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I'm guessing this kid must have purchased the solutions manual on his own, separate from the textbook? Cause the prof would have to be dumber than the kid to be assigning questions that students already have answers to.

I guess the kid is at least a little clever in that he found a way to get all the correct answers without having to do any work, but at the same time he is very very dumb for making it so obvious that he's cheating.

[Borodog]

Jackson is not the text for the class. The text for the class is Griffiths. Jackson is THE graduate level E&M text, and the simpler problems can make for excellent exam questions for the undergrad level.

[doucy]

I see. Still seems pretty ridiculous that he would assign problems that students could potentially already have the answers to. But I guess if I were a professor and I got paid the same regardless of the amount of time I put into work, I'd probably just use someone else's problems also.

[Borodog]

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I see. Still seems pretty ridiculous that he would assign problems that students could potentially already have the answers to. But I guess if I were a professor and I got paid the same regardless of the amount of time I put into work, I'd probably just use someone else's problems also.

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There is no reason to expect an undergrad to have access to the Jackson solutions manual. He also instructed the students explicitly on what materials they were allowed to consult.

[mjkidd]

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I see. Still seems pretty ridiculous that he would assign problems that students could potentially already have the answers to. But I guess if I were a professor and I got paid the same regardless of the amount of time I put into work, I'd probably just use someone else's problems also.

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There is no reason to expect an undergrad to have access to the Jackson solutions manual. He also instructed the students explicitly on what materials they were allowed to consult.

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How can you have a take home test that is not open-everything? People are going to cheat, period. There is no reason not to.

[CallMeIshmael]

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I see. Still seems pretty ridiculous that he would assign problems that students could potentially already have the answers to. But I guess if I were a professor and I got paid the same regardless of the amount of time I put into work, I'd probably just use someone else's problems also.

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There is no reason to expect an undergrad to have access to the Jackson solutions manual. He also instructed the students explicitly on what materials they were allowed to consult.

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Out of curiosity, what is the call on whether the student was cheating on the homework assignments?

Specifically, since (at least at my school) homework assignments usually allow use of outside resources that arent other students (ie. internet, etc) it seems he would be allowed to use the other book.

Obviously, once you get to the exam where it was likely most outside resources were forbidden, he is toast.

[CallMeIshmael]

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I see. Still seems pretty ridiculous that he would assign problems that students could potentially already have the answers to. But I guess if I were a professor and I got paid the same regardless of the amount of time I put into work, I'd probably just use someone else's problems also.

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There is no reason to expect an undergrad to have access to the Jackson solutions manual. He also instructed the students explicitly on what materials they were allowed to consult.

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How can you have a take home test that is not open-everything? People are going to cheat, period. There is no reason not to.

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There is a big reason not to: if you get caught, you get punished.

Whether or not many people are going to cheat doesnt mean the student didnt cheat in this case.