NL Bots on Full Tilt

[cwar]

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I counted twice so far nation said he wasn't posting anymore, yet continues to post. That's only from skipping every other page in this thing.

The funny part is, if this was some random person he didn't know, Nation would be one of the first people to cry blasphemy to anyone that would listen.

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Right which is why I find it so bizarre that he is so defensive about this issue when any rational person would see that people have reason to worry at the very *minimum*.

[Backspin20]

So...has Mike chimmed in on this yet?

[DWarrior]

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I think there a couple issues at hand, first nation has taken an extremely dismissive attitude towards the whole issue. Given the information from the bot thread I think its completely fair for people to entertain the idea that bots are a possible explanation to the situation on some level. Why is nation so opposed to letting people discuss the idea that its possible?

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Because he personally knew the guy? You guys were bashing Chris by the time nation joined, not discussing botting.

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Another thing is the issue of creating a team to consistently work together using a specific strategy and constant supervision and discussion during actual play. I wouldnt go as far as to say its unethical but I believe it goes against what 2p2 stands for as a community.

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OK, so you concede that it is not unethical.

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I believe as a community we standard for thinking about poker not coming up with a simple strategy that will break even and nation has admitted he wanted to stake a member of the group.

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Not break even, just be low variance and easy to follow. There is a community on 2+2 that is striving to create a formulaic poker strategy. It's called the SNG forum.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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Wait, I'M the A-hole?

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How you write something and claim it is true, then change it and the new version that is also suddenly true, is enough to tell me you are an A-hole regardless of if you have used bots or not. If you have a feeling that what you do (whatever it is) is ok, you would never behave that way.

[KotOD]

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Bet River:

2497/575 = 0.230276332
961/216 = 0.224765869
2403/538 = 0.223886808
1836/411 = 0.223856209


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[BrandonJoseph47]

Ok mates, I'm making this my last post of the night. First off, I have no ill will towards ANYONE that doesn't believe us. I don't come here to hate(there ARE a lot of haters). It's good to be skeptical, have differing opinions, etc..I understand the evidence presented by Trebek LOOKS pretty damning. If I wasn't POSITIVE by being there that nobody is botting/cheating it MAY be hard to believe. Appeasing you folks isn't my primary objective. Sticking up for an honest and great person IS. There will always be questions. Did we really land on the moon? Who shot JFK? I urge you folks, however, not to be so quick to judge and think for yourselves. Also, trust that FT is doing their job. They are a very reputable website with nothing to gain by allowing bots to play. I'm confident they'll continue to provide a great/safe place for us play poker-which is all we want to do. In closing, good luck at the tables and like I said, no harm, no foul from ANY of you in my eyes. Free thinking, and differing opinions are what makes the world go round. Peace like hair grease. Cheers.

[Thuey11]

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Bet River:

2497/575 = 0.230276332
961/216 = 0.224765869
2403/538 = 0.223886808
1836/411 = 0.223856209


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i don't understand those fractions, they should be greater than 1 by the way they are all listed, or am i missing something eg.1836/411=4.4671532846

[tautomer]

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I think pretty much everyone by now knows they're not botting, so now it's on to sweatshops. It's basically one far-fetched story vs another.

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And by everyone, you mean 3 of you guys right?

Its been constant lies by everyone involved in the scam. As someone else said, eveyrone with a halfway decent BS meter knows whats up.

Mark

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Sure, I think there is a reasonable chance that "something is up", but that something is very unlikely to be botting. I thought we moved on to sweatshops now.

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Ok, let's get back to the bots then. The only "evidence" against bots is the word of two of full_tilting's buddies. One straight up "lied" to everyone (before the whole poker team story came up) and didn't know it was a 1 month instead of a three month investigation. And one happens to have a bunch of posts and a green name who also seems to know about this than the guy who is supposedly part of the team. Not very convincing, I'll need a bit more.

As far as your statistical analysis goes to disproving the bot theory, you are assuming identical dealt hands distribution for each account. Not to mention hands dealt by position. Full ring preflop strategy is highly dependent upon cards and position. Obviously cards are less important in late position but anyway. For instance, how often have you been dealt KJo on the button? I've gotten it (255/27855) 0.915% of the time. Four off the button I've gotten it (137/17193) 0.797% of the time. What if those percentages were reversed? Would that affect overall VPIP? Probably not very much but I'm certain that it would somewhat. What about QJ, AT, JT, and other highly position dependent hands? Remember, the VPIP is only 14% so there's fairly small range of hands being played, likely following a typical preflop cookbook strategy. Overall I've been dealt KJo 0.915% of the time and 35o 0.856% of the time. What if those numbers were reversed? The differences are tiny on a case by case basis but they can add up, especially when position is taken into account, which it must be. My point is, the "significant" differences in preflop numbers that you found aren't taking into account all of the data. But we don't have all of the data so...bots can't be ruled out. Nothing proven of course, but nothing ruled out.

[DWarrior]

invert them [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

They're bet river stats for the four players. Proof that they're botting.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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Also, trust that FT is doing their job.

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LOL, you want us to stick our heads in the sand?