*Red Sox thread* News, views, and love for the front office

[kidcolin]

I was really happy about shopping Arroyo when it happened. He wouldn't have been any better than Beckett.

[NT!]

[ QUOTE ]
I was really happy about shopping Arroyo when it happened. He wouldn't have been any better than Beckett.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but look at what we gave up to get beckett vs what we got for arroyo. would you give up ramirez and sanchez for WMP? prob not.

[Ser William]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was really happy about shopping Arroyo when it happened. He wouldn't have been any better than Beckett.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but look at what we gave up to get beckett vs what we got for arroyo. would you give up ramirez and sanchez for WMP? prob not.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is great in hindsight but nobody could foresee just how bad Beckett would become and how good Hanley would be. At the time of the trade it was almost universally lauded as a good move. Beckett was considered a frontrunner for Cy Young this year and Hanley had languished in the Sox farm system forever (his stats weren't great and it was a known issue that he had attitudinal problems).

I know the AL is better than the NL but I don't buy into the fact that every AL pitcher is better than every NL pitcher. Maybe it takes a year to adjust? Schilling didn't seem to have any problems at all coming over from the NL a few years back. Even adjusting for the AL/NL difference I don't think anyone saw Beckett with a 5+ era at the end of the year. Of course, he did manage to pitch his career high in innings (no blister problems) and wins (not that wins counts for much).

I'm not going to give up on Beckett based on just one year. He did change his delivery this year to avoid the blister problems he has had in past years. Hence the high number of innings pitched this year. Also, the Sox fired Dave Wallace, who I thought was a pretty terrible pitchers coach.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
This is great in hindsight but nobody could foresee just how bad Beckett would become and how good Hanley would be.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's Theo's job to guess one way or another WRT to these things. In these cases, it looks like he was wrong. Being results oriented in personal decisions is perfectly fine...we're not dealing with poker hands.

[kyleb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is great in hindsight but nobody could foresee just how bad Beckett would become and how good Hanley would be.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's Theo's job to guess one way or another WRT to these things. In these cases, it looks like he was wrong. Being results oriented in personal decisions is perfectly fine...we're not dealing with poker hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except everyone who was smart at all knew how bad Beckett really was, and how much upside Hanley had.

[Ser William]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is great in hindsight but nobody could foresee just how bad Beckett would become and how good Hanley would be.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's Theo's job to guess one way or another WRT to these things. In these cases, it looks like he was wrong. Being results oriented in personal decisions is perfectly fine...we're not dealing with poker hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

But how much can you really tell after on year? Based on that you must have been happy that the Sox traded Renteria away, after all he was terrible last year. All-star this year for the Braves of course. The Yanks tried to put Giambi in the minors early this year and would gladly have waived him if they didn't have to eat his contract. Look at him now.

There are tons of cases in baseball where a player can have a bad year. If Beckett is awful next year too, then we can say the Sox were off on this trade. I'm not going to give up on him after one mediocre year.

I'm not apologizing for the Sox, they've made a lot of bad trades (forget Hanley Ramirez.. how about Freddie Sanchez and Mike Gonazlez for Jeff frickin Suppan!) I'm just not ready to sell out Beckett.

[kyleb]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just not ready to sell out Beckett.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you get it.

Beckett was never good.

[NT!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is great in hindsight but nobody could foresee just how bad Beckett would become and how good Hanley would be.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's Theo's job to guess one way or another WRT to these things. In these cases, it looks like he was wrong. Being results oriented in personal decisions is perfectly fine...we're not dealing with poker hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except everyone who was smart at all knew how bad Beckett really was, and how much upside Hanley had.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I definitely knew about HanRam's upside, and I knew Beckett had been inconsistent in the past, but why was he so bad? His K/9, BB/9, and ERA were all significantly off this year (don't know how his EQA is, or how the first two look adjusted against strength of opponents, if such a stat exists) and he gave up a TON of home runs, both at home and on the road. Seems to me like an off year even if you weren't so hot on him before.

[Ser William]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm just not ready to sell out Beckett.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you get it.

Beckett was never good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Enlighten me, wise one.

[rwperu34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest mistake that Epstein made, was letting Johnny Damon sign with the Yankees.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's the worst mistake you make as a GM, you are probably running a third place club .

[/ QUOTE ]

We're almost seeing eye to eye.