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#91
10-22-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
Great post Mook. Those middle two paragraphs (Furthermore-being spent) sum up exactly how I Feel about this.
Gotta wonder how we ended up talking about healthcare in this thread though guys. 
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#92
10-22-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Its funny seeing this same discussion and arguments almost every week or 2, with the same exact results. I think socialists are batting 0/100 at this point. [/ QUOTE ] I like this line of thought. You never agree with socialists so they can never win an argument. [/ QUOTE ] Well since every thread ends with either the socialist making personal insults against the ACists, conceding the point, or death star scenarios, then yea I'd say they lose the argument. [/ QUOTE ] Again, from your perspective ACist don't insult people and the socialists concede. No one really "wins" these discussions. [/ QUOTE ] We'll see how this one ends. How many people came here ACists/libertarians and are now socialists? The socialist arguments are completely unconvincing. I was a far left liberal ~2 years ago before I had any real knowledge of economics and have watched as Boro, pvn and others (not nielso cause he is kind of crazy and every argument seems to be him linking to a 50 page mises.org page) have pretty much destroyed everything I thought was good about socialism and big government. I'm not an Acist but I am definitely a far left liberal anymore.
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#93
10-22-2007, 12:43 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And yet sadly this goes ignored: [ QUOTE ] No, it doesn't run inefficiently under anyone. Efficiency isn't even the point. Fairness is. Anything without a profit motive is going to be less efficient than something with a profit motive but that doesn't make it necessarily worse. [/ QUOTE ] Which is 100% true. [/ QUOTE ] Who gets to decide when an operation run without a profit motive is less efficient but "not necessarily worse" than something with a profit motive? [/ QUOTE ] Me, you and everyone we know. [/ QUOTE ] If you honestly believe that, PM me. I have an amazing staking deal to discuss with you! You can't lose! [/ QUOTE ] Since you have nothing to say but snide insults, am I to take it that the socialists are now 1/101? [/ QUOTE ] That comment just shocked me. You're a reasonable person. You can't possibly believe you have a real voice in modern government. Government is good in theory, not in practice.
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#94
10-22-2007, 12:45 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
That comment just shocked me. You're a reasonable person. You can't possibly believe you have a real voice in modern government. Government is good in theory, not in practice. [/ QUOTE ] This comment just shocked me. You're a reasonable person. You can't possibly believe you have a real chance of overthrowing modern government. Government being overthrown is possible in theory, impossible in practice. Fair play?
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#96
10-22-2007, 12:50 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
You have adopted a popular debating tactic of putting words into my mouth. When you disagree with something I've said I'll respond. [/ QUOTE ] So when you quoted the sentence ... [ QUOTE ] Anything without a profit motive is going to be less efficient than something with a profit motive but that doesn't make it necessarily worse. [/ QUOTE ] ... and called it, in your words, "100% true", I shouldn't take it as your position on the matter? I then noted that it is by no means 100% true, in that there are numerous entities that do not have a profit motive and yet are extremely efficient at what they do. Sorry, but to the extent I am not disagreeing with you, you are framing the issue incorrectly. It is not about "profit" vs. "non-profit", because if it were we would be in agreement to some extent (i.e., many private but non-profit charities are more efficient in their operations than many private for-profit companies). But the key word in that previous sentence is not "profit", but "private". And the debate is about health care (or for that matter services in general) being provided by private entities vs. being provided by the government. You have at no point in this thread given me reason to think you don't favor the latter. Mook
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#97
10-22-2007, 12:53 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
I am a government employee [/ QUOTE ] This is truly astonishing. Reading all your BS about how we should keep everything private, welfare is terrible, fairness is inconceivable, government programs are socialist, blah blah ME ME ME blah blah I have a job with good benefits EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD TOO blah blah blah blah. And then I see that YOU ARE IN THE GOVERNMENT???!!??!! If you think the government is so terrible, and THE GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT YOU ENJOY is so terrible, THEN GET THE [censored] OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT!!! Isn't there a famous quote that says something to the effect of: to know something is right, and not do it, is the highest level of cowardice? You "know" the government is wrong, well, do the RIGHT THING according to you and GET OUT!
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#98
10-22-2007, 12:55 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I am a government employee [/ QUOTE ] This is truly astonishing. Reading all your BS about how we should keep everything private, welfare is terrible, fairness is inconceivable, government programs are socialist, blah blah ME ME ME blah blah I have a job with good benefits EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD TOO blah blah blah blah. And then I see that YOU ARE IN THE GOVERNMENT???!!??!! If you think the government is so terrible, and THE GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT YOU ENJOY is so terrible, THEN GET THE [censored] OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT!!! Isn't there a famous quote that says something to the effect of: to know something is right, and not do it, is the highest level of cowardice? You "know" the government is wrong, well, do the RIGHT THING according to you and GET OUT! [/ QUOTE ] If you think this ones bad, consider that borodog is a government employee!
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#99
10-22-2007, 12:58 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I am a government employee [/ QUOTE ] This is truly astonishing. Reading all your BS about how we should keep everything private, welfare is terrible, fairness is inconceivable, government programs are socialist, blah blah ME ME ME blah blah I have a job with good benefits EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD TOO blah blah blah blah. And then I see that YOU ARE IN THE GOVERNMENT???!!??!! If you think the government is so terrible, and THE GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THAT YOU ENJOY is so terrible, THEN GET THE [censored] OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT!!! Isn't there a famous quote that says something to the effect of: to know something is right, and not do it, is the highest level of cowardice? You "know" the government is wrong, well, do the RIGHT THING according to you and GET OUT! [/ QUOTE ] If you think this ones bad, consider that borodog is a government employee! [/ QUOTE ] The man is a masochist.
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#100
10-22-2007, 01:00 PM
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Re: Concentration of Power in the US
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You have adopted a popular debating tactic of putting words into my mouth. When you disagree with something I've said I'll respond. [/ QUOTE ] So when you quoted the sentence ... [ QUOTE ] Anything without a profit motive is going to be less efficient than something with a profit motive but that doesn't make it necessarily worse. [/ QUOTE ] ... and called it, in your words, "100% true", I shouldn't take it as your position on the matter? [/ QUOTE ] It most certainly is my position on the matter. [ QUOTE ] I then noted that it is by no means 100% true, in that there are numerous entities that do not have a profit motive and yet are extremely efficient at what they do. [/ QUOTE ] This does not contradict the idea that a trade off from efficiency to fairness can be "good". You are merely saying the trade off is not necessarily needed. [ QUOTE ] Sorry, but to the extent I am not disagreeing with you, you are framing the issue incorrectly. It is not about "profit" vs. "non-profit", because if it were we would be in agreement to some extent (i.e., many private but non-profit charities are more efficient in their operations than many private for-profit companies). [/ QUOTE ] This, again, is tangential to my point. [ QUOTE ] But the key word in that previous sentence is not "profit", but "private". [/ QUOTE ] No. You think that's key because: [ QUOTE ] And the debate is about health care (or for that matter services in general) being provided by private entities vs. being provided by the government. [/ QUOTE ] The "debate" is supposed to be about concentration of power in the US, but (as per usual) has sidetracked into something like this. However, the context of the comment was certainly within the above debate. This doesn't mean I condone our particular government. Nothing I said reflects that. [ QUOTE ] You have at no point in this thread given me reason to think you don't favor the latter. Mook [/ QUOTE ] A government or our government? Or is it just better to assume that my position is unreasonable so that it's easier to win some debate (rather than understand the issue)?
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